You clearly have only ONE agenda, it is not Zoroastrian at all, and you have utterly failed to convince anybody on this forum that your agenda is worth anything TO US. Instead you are just consuming everybody's valuable time and energy, while utterly boring us with your long, prejudiced and one-dimensional tirades.
Not only Jews were thrown into the ovens of the 1940s. Homosexuals were too and before the Jews. So if you are going to start some perverse "victimhood contest" you have clearly picked the wrong people when picking me and Dino. It also certainly doesn't help that your idol Ayn Rand was homophobic and hated modern art (wto more big wrongs in our world with dear Ayn). For all her best qualities, this doesn't really endear people like myself and Dino to your extremist agenda. And that's that.
There are actually quite a few randian Zoroastrians, very decent ones too. That's not even a problem. The problem is your PERSONALITY, your total lack of capacity to COMMUNICATE WITH others. But since you hate any form of "collective" so much, why do you even bother to BE HERE? This is a collective, a Zoroastrian collective. So with these two wrongs in your book, why do you bother to stay here? Have you got nothing better to do? Seriously!
Ushta
Alexander/sees the total irony here in that Ayn Rand lived in a commune in the 1950s called, of all things, "The Collective", at least she must have had a sense of humor...
2009/10/23 Judy Weismonger
Solidarity against what? People with money? Solidarity against People who have educated themselves, worked hard, asked nothing from anyone...sold good products at a fair price in the market place...and then some sociologist with a "poor me" political agenda comes along and tells them they are racists, bigots, homophobes, unjust...because they are "rich" (anyone with a job and who doesn't have a failed, defective personality?) Just who exactly are you "solidly" against? Fess up and tell us who your targets of hate are. I bet I can flip through any sociology text you have on your shelf...and it will tell me.
Just exactly "who" are you "solidly" for...or "solidly" against? I know the answer, but it would be refreshing for you to be honest and forthcoming for once.
I have never picked up any book in science, or psychology, or biology...which has as its stated goal...a target of hate or destruction.
..."Social justice" for whom, against whom...for what reasons...and at what cost to the individual? Its the same old tired Left Wing treadmill of using nice sounding words, that actually mean nothing, but in the end....creating a police state, to "force" people to all be fair, just,...and equally poor.
And well Gee...thank you for the compliment, that I'm "paranoid."...Just before Hitler took power and imposed his Left Wing Fascism (NAZI does stand for National Socialist Workers)...some Jews "got it" in their "paranoia"...they left Germany, including Albert Einstein...but the other Jews who stayed...all said that "Nah...Einstein and all those Jew who are leaving are just "paranoid." And, the rest is history.
So...thank you so much for putting me in the same "paranoid" company with Albert Einstein, C.J. Jung, and especially Ayn Rand who saw what the Left did to her family and country up close and personal. In my family, more than 33 Weismongers and von Oldenburgs were shoved into the ovens....and you are right. We are certainly justifiably paranoid of people like you on the Left who use the same terminology, the same ideas, the same persecution and scapegoat tactics against someone, be they rich or Jew...for "solidarity" against ...your enemies, i.e. independence and freedom.
You and your Leftist friends may have all the 'best intensions' of wanting to create a "new world order" of peace, social justice, community, society, economic fairness, blah, blah, blah...but you are simply fools, tools, dupes and stooges of the Left...who use you and your naivete' to put on a "civilized" face.
The problem is...once the Left has won...your type, who describe themselves as "moderates" who state they all believe in "democracy"....will be the first to be crucified as a threat to the party or the "state." I was in Nicaragua...when the Marxist Sandinistas won...and the first thing Tomas Borge did...was begin to execute people just like you...the nice guys, those who thought the Sandinistas were going to bring "justice to the people." Right...justice at the point of a gun. I was the first journalist to document Marxist Sandinista atrocities against the Moskito-Suma-Rama Indians...which was entered in the US Congressional Record in 1986.
You and your Leftists...have all supported the Marxist Sandinistas, Fidel Castro, the Viet Cong, Hugo Chavez, and now Hussein Obama...who have all followed the same game plan...in which once they come to power, the people...all people rich or poor, black or white, begin to suffer at the hands of the "state." I think its the "arrogance" that disturbs me the most, coupled with naivete'...that makes "sociology" so dangerous and irrational.
People with a good dose of paranoia...stay alive in this world. So, if you want to bring your Leftist politics into Zoroastrianism...OK, let's get it on. I've asked you now for about 4 times...to show me the Gathas that state that Zoroastrianism is like or supports any kind of Leftist ideology? And you have not done so. Why is that? Because there is none. This delusion of Zism as a religion parallel to socialism...is just another fig newton in your poor, deluded, Left wing, naive mind.
I know the Left's "psychology" inside and out...and I know what kind of childhood dysfunctionality and lack of bonding most of those on the Left suffered from as children...and as a result are most attracted to the Leftist ideology and why...and how such children grew up with a "cultured" sense of "victimhood"...who as adults are used as dupes and stooges by the Left. Did you ever stop to think...that you were being used...and manipulated by some of the best public relations' people on this planet? Well, you are.
The Marxist Sandinistas..with your donated money, hired two of the best PR firms in the world..one in New York and one in WDC...to engineer the best public relations campaign the world has ever seen...to block votes to support the Contras (the good guys), create some of the nastiest hate literature through media exposure to smear Ronald Reagaon and the Nicaraguan people who did not support Marxism...and organized every campus, every library, every public TV station...to promote the Marxist Sandinistas. However, when legal elections finally took place in Nicaragua...even after the Marxists "imported" some 250,000 illegal voters from El Salvador and Guatemala to vote for the Marxists...they still lost. (Hmmm, those tactics sound just like the illegal voting engineered by Obama's community organizers at ACORN...only this time Obama and his Chicago Thugs won.)
The professionals in public relations...are better sociologists than any of your crowd...because they make money at it...all your side does is whine and wish for a "better world." Poor you. You have nothing to lose you think...by promoting your ideology, its all just words isn't it.
All this yearning for a "community"...which is really just another hidden agenda for a daddy state...is really about the Left's need for a surrogate father to be the perfect, caring, warm, fuzzy daddy they never had to replace the daddy who was so weak with imperfections who disappointed when daddy couldn't give them everything their little hearts' desired. Of course, all this displaced aggression and yearing...is really all about "you." It has nothing to do with politics...or organizations, or communities...or "collectives"...because if it did...you would be reading and citing "real" studies in organizational psychology...which you have not. I've asked you a couple of times to describe what you think is "empiracal" evidence, or show me some "empiracle" studies by your sociologists...and you won't or can't.
There is a massive difference in the real research performed in organizational psychology...in comparison to the social and political emotionalism in sociology, its like night and day. Not once have I ever read a text in organizational, or political psychology...that uses terms such as "social justice"...or "the collective" or the dehumazing idea of that we all belong to a "community," in which the individual is treated like a herd animal. Why don't you take a very close look at your vocabulary...starting with the first couple of sentences you began your diatribe with...
Business people know more real psychology, from real studies and research than your entire field of sociology....Why? Because they have to know what is real and what is just phoney baloney political emotionalism meant to trip some triggers...because they "sell" stuff...and if they don't get it right, then their products don't sell. What do you sell? You sell victimology (social justice.). The very best cure for the "poor" is to allow them and others to create jobs in response to the market place and leave their money and rights alone.
Don't you think it bizarre to attempt to impose your utopian idealism in order to create a "community" or a "society" that you approve of...rather than just let people organize themselves into communities and societies...based on their individual needs, wants, and desires? What incredible arrogance!
You really should read Dr. Jerrold Post's texts on political psychology and become enlightened. Post is a psychiatrist, and head of the Dept of Political Psychology at Georgetown University. I've been through their "intelligence" collections held on reserve at the Intelligence Library...and to say the least, it was both disturbing and enlightening...because nearly everyone on the Left in every country engaged in "revolution' (murder) all use the same vocabulary and terminology as you...and your sociologists. Your chosen field of study, or your politics, or your "end game" is not trusted and for good and historical reasons.
Jerrold Post has done extensive psychiatric studies of Fidel Castro, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush, and many other heads of government, all of whom impacted the "societies" they had control over. The first two of which...all have many aspects of their dysfunctional childhoods in common...with Leftist ideology. Its really too bad your field doesn't do any real research, and "does not believe in biology"....if it did, it might learn something useful.
When Hillary Clinton said it "takes a whole village (because you on the Left think everyone is soooo stupid), to raise a child (she meant that two parents were not enough...and in reality, that village is the Federal government in a socialist police state.)
Hillary's early speeches when she was just out of university are quite telling: Hillary wanted all families with children to be 'assigned' a social worker and a local police agency so that "parents" could be prevented from abusing children. The very most Hillary knows about rearing children is about how to sign a check for the Nanny. The entire Left Wing view of the world is just laughable and tragic,...and so arrogant.
Just who do you think you are kidding here? Not me...or those who email me privately....Its really getting funny. Thank you so much for exposing exactly what your Left Wing police state fascist intentions are...but, we knew that already. Social Justice my hind end...hahahahah. For whom? And just how are you going to do it?
How many people's rights and money do you recommend you take away and steal...before you feel that Justice has been served and everyone is now "equal"? But, then your field of sociology never asks those questions do they? Its just about some seemingly benign concept such as the "community" or the "society."....So, let us know.
Let us engage in a little psychoanalysis here, and just see how much hostility you have...and to whom, and why? Tell us why you "chose" sociology as your field of study?
I do hope that you poor Leftists do get a chance to mature...
Ushta Hugs, Judy
--- On Thu, 10/22/09, Special Kain
From: Special Kain
Subject: [Ushta] What Zarathushtra has to do with sociology
To: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 22, 2009, 8:46 AM
Dear friends,
Dina, Arthur, Alexander and I agree that Zoroastrianism as a faith promoting inclusion, solidarity and the overcoming of social injustice and cruelty is based on a community-minded attitude. In this respect Zoroastrians are concerned with building, maintaining and expanding communities - that is, interacting with people we've previously ignored or excluded or discriminated. Zoroastrianism is a liberal and brutally tolerant religion: religious tolerance, gender equality, protecting the environment, having a constructive mentality and basically doing good things. This is where Zarathushtra and sociology meet: the matter of SOCIATION in a sociological sense. How do communities rise out of our daily interactions? And how do they dissolve? You can take different approaches, either top-down (macro-theories, see Niklas Luhmann) or bottom-up (micro-theories, see Erving Goffman). Just to give you a few examples.
Remember that identities always are social identities. You can't have subjectivity without intersubjectivity. And, of course, you can't have intersubjectivity without subjectivity. The social worlds we're part of are the hosts of meaning, as we're continually shaping the world together and giving meaning to our thoughts, words and deeds. An isolated nomad can't come up with anything "meaningful" , because the symbols we're using borrow their meanings from social uses and their actual effects: things mean what they cause. Meaning therefore is an open-ended and social learning experience that is utterly creative!
So there's the social world as the host of meaning and we're all a part of it as co-creators: we are Mazda! Because Zarathushtra was a social reformer and civilizationist, after all. And as we all know it is possible to cherish Zarathushtra' s civilizationist ethics without becoming evil socialists. Actually, Zoroastrianism is combining liberal hopes with a community-minded attitude WITHOUT falling into the individualist trap: it's not someone's petty ego versus the rest of humanity, it's us as individuals with partly distinct identities within the global community! Subjectivities give rise to intersubjectivity (sociation) and intersubjectivity gives rise to different subjectivites (social integration) . Our thoughts, words and deeds are embedded within socially shared and interacting flows and both individual and social at the same time. Why is that? Because things mean what they cause, because meaning is an open-ended and liberating and social learning experience.
My ten cents,
Dino
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