tisdag 6 oktober 2009

The Concept of Amordad (Transcendence)

No, Mehran, here I must offer friendly disagreement.
There is no evidence whatsoever that any belief in the "immortality of the soul" existed anywhere in Indo-Iranian culture. This is a much later belief - as Dino has correctly pointed out - developed in Egypt and not in Iran. Otherwise, Iran would have been full of ancient pyramids but it is not. The pyramids are in Egypt and NOT in Iran.
Amordad should frankly be translated as "transcendence" to modern English and not as "immortality". We need to get rid of Abrahamic interpretations of our faith, not recycle or endorse them. We have had enough of them already.

2009/10/6 MoobedyAr Mehran Gheibi

Dear Dino
I am not agree with you. Gatha is full of beliefs of imortal soul. amordAd is one basic evidence.

Nik-o shAd bAshid
KhodA negahdAr,
MoobedyAr MehrAn Gheibi.

--- On Sat, 10/3/09, Special Kain wrote:

From: Special Kain
To: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, October 3, 2009, 11:38 AM

Dear Judy,

The immortal soul is a much younger concept than the concepts given in the Gathas, so there was no notion of immortal souls at the time when Zarathushtra started to raise questions. I used to do parapsychological research several years ago and we didn't detect any immaterial souls. There are, however, some phenomena that require further investigation.

Ushta, Dino

--- Judy Weismonger schrieb am Sa, 3.10.2009:

Von: Judy Weismonger
An: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
Datum: Samstag, 3. Oktober 2009, 9:06

Hello Moobed....anything' s possible in one's imagination, but I defer to physics, and so far, I do not know of any physics theories that states that there is a separation.. .or a transcendent state between soul, or mind, body, etc. if there is, I'd like to see some proof.

When you say "spirit"...could you define what you mean by "spirit?" Not once in the below Wikipedia description of the history of the word "spirit" do they refer to Zoroastrian concepts. So...what is a Z concept of the the "soul" or the "spirit," etc.?

My take is that in Zism...the word "spirit" in interchangeable with the concept of physics and the word "energy." Am I wrong?

In my terms, "spirit"is another word for energy....as described by the original Greek context from the root word "espiritu" (or psyke, also meaning "mind") meaningalso to draw in breath...And for that reason, before we go into a discussion of "spirit" I would like for us to all get on the same page and come to a conclusion what 'spirit' is. Below is what I pulled out of the Wikipedia.com. ..Hugs, Judy

The English word "spirit" has many differing meanings and connotations, but commonly refers to a supernatural being or essence — transcendent and therefore metaphysical in its nature: the Concise Oxford Dictionary defines it as "the non-physical part of a person". For many people, however, spirit, like soul, forms a natural part of a being: such people may identify spirit with mind, or with consciousness, or with the brain.

The English word "spirit" comes from the Latin spiritus, meaning "breath" (compare spiritus asper), but also "soul, courage, vigor", ultimately from a PIE root *(s)peis- (to blow). In the Vulgate, the Latin word is the equivalent for Greek πνευμα (pneuma) and the Hebrew רוח (ruah), as opposed to Latin anima and Greek psykhē. The word apparently came into Middle English via Old French. The distinction between soul and spirit developed in Judeo-Christian terminology (thus we find Greek psykhe as opposed to pneuma, Latin anima as opposed to spiritus, Hebrew ruach as opposed to neshama or nephesh; in Hebrew neshama comes from the root NShM or "breath").
Metaphysical and metaphorical uses

English-speakers use the word "spirit" in two related contexts, one metaphysicalmetaphorical. and the other in a metaphysical context.
Metaphysical contexts

In metaphysical terms, "spirit" has acquired a number of meanings:

1. An incorporeal but ubiquitous, non-quantifiable substance or energy present individually in all living things. Unlike the concept of souls (often regarded as eternal and usually believed to pre-exist the body) a spirit develops and grows as an integral aspect of a living being. This concept of the individual spirit occurs commonly in animism. Note the distinction between this concept of spirit and that of the pre-existing or eternal soul: belief in souls occurs specifically and far less commonly, particularly in traditional societies. One might more properly term this type/aspect of spirit "life" (bios in Greek) or "ether" rather than "spirit" (pneuma in Greek).
2. A daemon sprite, or especially a ghost. People usually conceive of a ghost as a wandering spirit from a being no longer living, having survived the death of the body yet maintaining at least vestiges of mind and of consciousness.
3. In religion and spirituality, the respiration of a human has for obvious reasons become seen as strongly linked with the very occurrence of life. A similar significance has become attached to human blood. Spirit in this sense denotes that which separates a living body from a corpse — and usually implies intelligence, consciousness and sentience.
4. Various animistic religions, such as Japan's Shinto and various Native American and African tribal beliefs, focus around invisible beings which represent or connect with plants, animals (sometimes called "Animal Fathers"), or landforms; translators usually employ the English word "spirit" when trying to express the idea of such entities.
5. Individual spirits envisaged as interconnected with all other spirits and with "The Spirit" (singular and capitalized). This concept relates to theories of a unified spirituality, to universal consciousness and to some concepts of Deity. In this scenario all separate "spirits", when connected, form a greater unity, the Spirit, which has an identity separate from its elements plus a consciousness and intellect greater than its elements; an ultimate, unified, non-dual awareness or force of life combining or transcending all individual units of consciousness. The experience of such a connection can become a primary basis for spiritual belief. The term spirit occurs in this sense in (to name but a few) Anthroposophy, Aurobindo, A Course In Miracles, Hegel, and Ken Wilber. In this use, the term seems conceptually identical to Plotinus's "The One" and Friedrich Schelling's "Absolute". Similarly, according to the panentheistic/pantheistic view, Spirit equates to essencemind/soul through any level in pantheistic hierarchy/holarchy, such as through a mind/soul of a single cell (with very primitive, elemental consciousness) , or through a human or animal mind/soul (with consciousness on a level of organic synergy of an individual human/animal) , or through a (superior) mind/soul with synergetically extremely complex/sophisticat ed consciousness of whole galaxies involving all sub-levels, all emanating (since the superior mind/soul operates non-dimensionally, or trans-dimensionally ) from the one Spirit. that can manifest itself as
6. Christian theology can use the term "Spirit" to describe God, or aspects of God — as in the "Holy Spirit", referring to a Triune God (Trinity): "The result of God reaching to man by the Father as the source, the Son as the course ('the Way'), and through the Spirit as the transmission. "
7. In (popular) theological terms, the individual human "spirit" (singular, lowercase) is a deeply situated aspect of the soul subject to "spiritual" growth and change; the very seat of emotion and desire, and the transmitting organ by which humans can contact God. In a rare theological definition it consists of higher consciousness enclosing the soul, pneumatology (note that pneumatology studies "pneuma" (Greek for "spirit") not "psyche" (Greek for "soul" — as studied in psychology). "Spirit" forms a central concept in
8. Christian Science uses "Spirit" as one of the seven synonyms for God, as in: "Principle; Mind; Soul; Spirit; Life; Truth; Love"[1]
9. Harmonism reserves the term "spirit" for those which collectively control and influence an individual from the realm of the mind.

Metaphorical usage

The metaphorical use of the term likewise groups several related meanings:

1. The loyalty and feeling of inclusion in the social history or collectiveschool spirit or esprit de corps. essence of an institution or group, such as in
2. A closely related meaning refers to the worldview of a person, place, or time, as in "The Declaration of Independence was written in the spirit of John Locke and his notions of liberty", or the term zeitgeist, meaning "spirit of the age".
3. As a synonym for "vivacity" as in "She performed the piece with spirit" or "She put up a spirited defense".
4. The underlying intention of a text as distinguished from its literal meaning, especially in law; see Letter and spirit of the law
5. As a term for alcoholic beverages — stemming from medieval superstitions that explained the effects of alcohol as demonic activity.
6. In mysticism: existence in unity with Godhead. Soul may also equate with spirit, but the soul involves certain individual human consciousness, while spirit comes from beyond that. Compare the psychological teaching of Al-Ghazali.

Related concepts in other languages

Similar concepts in other languages include Greek pneuma and Sanskrit akasha/atman, see also Prana.

Some languages use a word for "spirit" often closely related (if not synonymous) to "mind". Examples include the German, Geist (related to the English word "ghost") or the French, 'l'esprit'. English versions of the Judaeo-Christian Bible most commonly translate the Hebrew word "ruach" (רוח; "wind") as "the spirit", whose essence is divine[citation needed] (see Holy Spirit and ruach hakodesh).

Alternatively, Hebrew texts commonly use the word nephesh. Kabbalists regard nephesh as one of the five parts of the Jewish soul, where nephesh (animal) refers to the physical being and its animal instincts. Similarly, Scandinavian languages, Slavic languages and the Chinese language use the words for "breath" to express concepts similar to "the spirit".

--- On Thu, 10/1/09, MoobedyAr Mehran Gheibi wrote:

From: MoobedyAr Mehran Gheibi
Subject: RE: [Ushta] A short summary E =s MC squared and the Ahura Mazda
To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 6:50 AM

Dear Judy
Is it possible that a siritual universe as it is described in gAthA as minoo, does exist parallel to this material world.
In gAthA tan (material body) lives in giti (material world) and man(non material spirit/soul) lives in minoo (non material/spiritual world). The tan is limited between birth and death, but man is begun from birth and continue until reaching and becomeing one/merging/ unifying with God.

--- On Wed, 9/30/09, Judy Weismonger

From: Judy Weismonger
Subject: RE: [Ushta] A short summary E =s MC squared and the Ahura Mazda
To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 8:19 AM

Hi there Bahman....

It is not the "animal" itself that is intelligent per se, it is the intelligence that wrote the software log rhythms (code) that created it all and keeps it all in order...including us and animals. Am I making sense here?

Yes, I probably mean galaxies in the sense of the Hubble telescope pictures, but I also mean "universes". ....as complete entities. I'm going to show you the definitions as I know it below, and if you would like to enlarge upon, or dispute this, please....go ahead, I like these kinds of discussions:

The Universe comprises everything that physically exists, the entirety of space and time, all forms of matter and energy, and the physical laws and constants that govern them. However, the term Universe may be used in slightly different contextual senses, denoting such concepts as the cosmos, the world, or Nature

The multiverse (or meta-universe [metaverse]) is the hypothetical set of multiple possible universes (including our universe) that together comprise everything that physically exists: the entirety of space and time, all forms of matter, energy and momentum, and the physical laws and constants that govern them. The different universes within the multiverse are sometimes called parallel universes. The structure of the multiverse, the nature of each universe within it and the relationship between the various constituent universes, depend on the specific multiverse hypothesis considered.

And then there is:

In theoretical physics, M-theory is an extension of string theory in which 11 dimensions are identified. Because the dimensionality exceeds the dimensionality of five superstring theories in 10 dimensions, it is believed that the 11-dimensional theory unifies all string theories (and supersedes them). Though a full description of the theory is not yet known, the low-entropy dynamics are known to be supergravity interacting with 2- and 5-dimensional membranes.
This idea is the unique supersymmetric theory in eleven dimensions, with its low-entropy matter content and interactions fully determined, and can be obtained as the strong coupling limit of type IIA string theory because a new dimension of space emerges as the coupling constant increases.

Drawing on the work of a number of string theorists (including Ashoke Sen, Chris Hull, Paul Townsend, Ben Freeling, Michael Duff and John Schwarz), Edward Witten Institute for Advanced Study suggested its existence at a conference at USC in 1995, and used M-theory to explain a number of previously observed dualities, sparking a flurry of new research in string theory called the second superstring revolution.

In the early 1990s, it was shown that the various superstring theories were related by dualities, which allow physicists to relate the description of an object in one super string theory to the description of a different object in another super string theory. These relationships imply that each of the super string theories is a different aspect of a single underlying theory, proposed by Witten, and named "M-theory".

Originally the letter M in M-theory was taken from membrane, a construct designed to generalize the strings of string theory. However, as Witten was more skeptical about membranes than his colleagues, he opted for "M-theory" rather than "Membrane theory". Witten has since stated that the interpretation of the M can be a matter of taste for the user of the word "M-theory".[1]

M-theory is not yet complete; however it can be applied in many situations (usually by exploiting string theoretic dualities). The theory of electromagnetism was also in such a state in the mid-19th century; there were separate theories for electricity and magnetism and, although they were known to be related, the exact relationship was not clear until James Clerk Maxwell published his equations, in his 1864 paper A Dynamical Theory of the Electromagnetic Field.

Witten has suggested that a general formulation of M-theory will probably require the development of new mathematical language. However, some scientists have questioned the tangible successes of M-theory given its current incompleteness, and limited predictive power, even after so many years of intense research.

In late 2007, Bagger, Lambert and Gustavsson set off renewed interest in M-theory with the discovery of a candidate Lagrangian description of coincident M2-branes, based on a non-associative generalization of Lie Algebra, Nambu 3-algebra or Filippov 3-algebra. Practitioners hope the Bagger-Lambert- Gustavsson action (BLG action) will provide the long-sought microscopic description of M-theory.
--- On Wed, 9/30/09, Bahman Noruziaan wrote:

From: Bahman Noruziaan
Subject: RE: [Ushta] A short summary E =s MC squared and the Ahura Mazda
To: "Ushta Ushta"
Date: Wednesday, September 30, 2009, 2:09 AM

Hello Judy,

I read your entire posting rather quickly, which I will read again later.

For now....

Is it not possible that animals like elephants are also intelligent but on a different level?

When you say, Hubble Telescope has discovered billions of universes, I suppose you mean galaxies? Is it so, or you really meant universes?

Are you familiar with the concept of Fravashis in Zoroastrian tradition?


To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
From: weismonger@yahoo. com
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 01:32:05 -0700
Subject: Re: [Ushta] A short summary E =s MC squared and the Ahura Mazda

Ok, I'm game...and thanks for the new word: dorood...

1. Although an animal such as an elephant has a large brain in relationship to the size of the brain of a human being...an elephant does not have a cerebral cortex the size of a human being. It is the cerebral cortex (front part of the brain) and the number of glial cells, and dendrites that determine intelligence. The cerebral cortex is responsible for abstract, "intelligent" thinking. Ergo...most of what an elephant's brain is made up of...is devoted to moving its huge bulk around, and food memory. Because it has a huge, long nose...(trunk) ...much of the elephants brain is also devoted to smell. Dogs also have many more brain cells devoted to smell than do humans. So, it is not the gross size that is important, it is the size and the function of a certain part of the brain that is used...which becomes important. And...how our brains function, and our intelligence, is mostly determined by genetics and DNA.

2. Good question...and I think in consideration of how old the universe is...12.6 billion years old, and the evolutionary process that "all of it" has gone through...from just a glob of undefined energy, which I understand was primarily helium atoms, which then split off and formed other molecular structures because of great heat and stress... such as carbon, nickel, iron, etc....the total process, including the mind of the Ahura Mazda (intelligent energy)..... is about evolution toward a higher intelligence. ..which on this planet at this time is "us." Yes, I believe the human mind is in the process of getting smarter...as an extension of or a reflection of the Ahura Mazda's own evolution.

One of the most important differences between say Islam, or Christianity and Zoroastrianism. ..is that Zism does not believe in magic. Magic is a concept that says a "divinity" can interrupt the laws of physics...like a magician can pull a rabbit out of a hat. Thus, the christian theology says that "god" created the earth and the entire cosmos in six days. This is not possible and violates every law of physics. The Ahura Mazda is pure Logic...and Love.

Now, if the Ahura Mazda is wisdom...and Logic, described as a manifestation of intelligent energy, then following such logic....energy has always been present, but has gone through untold, and countless expansions and contractions. ...and evolutions. Nothing is static in the universe, and the only constant is "change."

....and in these expansions as is occurring now...a natural "evolution" of energy, and its "visible" brother "matter," takes place...following the laws of known physics, which then form the elements of the universe. To date...no new elements have been discovered for quite a few years...so its a good bet, that the known elements are finite. I say "known" because although physicists have a handle on such laws, and know much, there is much more to be discovered.

Having said that, new theories are arriving based on mathematical calculations that involve the "string theory"...the mem"brane" theory, multiple universes, or multiverses, and so on. We may exist inside a bubble, that exists inside a bubble, that exists inside a bubble...ad infinitim.

There is not just one universe it seems, but many to the point that they cannot be counted. The Hubble Telescope is showing pictures of billions of universes, and with each speck of light it takes a picture of...it shows the potential of trillions of universes larger than the one we now inhabit.

What...organized all of this? Each universe has its own function, its own movement, and its own evolution of death, and birth, and rebirth. The core of the earth is molten nickel and iron, the core of the sun is fissionable helium.

Ergo, if there was no intelligence in the universe, then all the matter and energy would be bashing into each other all the time in one large mess. But, if you look up at the sky...there is order, and it is evolving and has been for 13.6 billion years. Einstein who was an Atheist...said that god was the great Watchmaker.. ..meaning, that there is order, and it is meaningful intelligent order and energy, and to make it personal and to use such energy...it takes "our minds" to understand it.

More importantly, just as we are beginning to understand these monstrously huge energy systems....what then is the use of such huge, intelligent, and evolving energy systems to us? Does the light and energy from these systems reach us? Does it impact our minds and how we function?

Yogis, meditators, Asian mystics...and so on have all made claims they were able to move this cosmic "energy" or spirits around in their brains and bodies...and it was not until just recently that the tools of science found...that yes, they could...using MRIs that measured blood flow in the brain.

Now what causes one to move blood flow into various parts of the brain, to make the mind and body function differently? It is thought....and thought is driven how? By being apart of a cosmic mind such as the Ahura Mazda concept. Thought is energy...and it is not only self created energy, it is cosmic energy....much like a radio picks up sound waves from the atmosphere, and the brain acts like a receiver.

The Big Bang theory as being the beginning of the beginning has just about passed away. The Big Bang is now best described as a beginning of a new evolution in energy states....and what seems to be most popular is the idea that energy has always been present (eternal)... .but, in different compactions and forms...expanding and contracting. This fits my idea that the Ahura Mazda has no beginning and no end...but is also a constant intelligent energy source...without any concept of time....and is evident through movement.

My logic tells me, that if as the Gathas state that the Ahura Mazda is intelligent energy and is in everything.. .then, the Ahura Mazda is also present in every form of energy, in which other such forms whether a distant universe, or a single celled bacteria.... cannot then be described as nonintelligent. ...because they are a part of the Ahura Mazda.

How could any part of the Ahura Mazda NOT be intelligent? Otherwise there is a dichotomy and a split in the logic of what is the Ahura Mazda.

I just got through reading about Zoroastrian Angels of which there are quite a number. Almost everyone would agree, that such Z Angels are "intelligent, " and it says that such angels are objective manifestations and "symbols" that are in control of cows, water, earth, justice, immortality, plants and so on...which leads me back again to the concept that if such "angels" are a manifestation of the Ahura Mazda, these intelligent energy systems are inherent in everything.. .that is a part of the Ahura Mazda's intelligence. There is not any thing, or any idea, that does not have some form of the Ahura Mazda's intelligent energy in it....otherwise it would not exist.

3. Yes, and no....to your question regarding spirituality and matter being one in the same...and that all should be able to be measured and observed. What you observe as either material or spiritual (energy) is only as good as your own eyes...and the tools of science, such as microscopes, which have expanded our ability to "see" and measure very small things that were never thought to have existed. Before microscopes. ..disease was thought to have been the result of "demons" or "bad air."

For example...We did not realize there were untold trillions of universes "out there" until the Hubble telescope was put into space...and now we can " see" them. We did not know what was going on in different parts of the brain until modern surgery, neurological experiments, MRI and PET scans and so on showed us. Therefore, our ability to see, measure, weigh, manipulate, discover, what is spirituality (energy) is increasing every day through science.

The concept of what is material, or what is energy, or spiritual... changes or rather expands every time science finds another way to measure energy and its effects on the human mind and body. They are one and the same in reality. And this may shock you...but when it gets down to it...energy appears to be an "organized" void....with nothing in it. The question then becomes...what keeps this "void" organized, what causes its movement and organization, or affinity for particular ways its functions? The best guess is ....an intelligent organized energy source....i. e. the Ahura Mazda as a concept...not as an actual "god" thingy, but as something, a thinking entity that is so massive, and so pervasive, so large, but yet so finite in its smallness that we cannot separate anything or ourselves from being a part of it.

A number of studies of Tibetan Monks in deep states of meditation while undergoing an MRI show that they can willfully move the blood flow from one part of the brain to another, primarily the frontal lobes....and shut down other parts of the brain that have to do with time, space, and place, in which they feel as if they are in contact with the cosmic mind. Buddhists don't believe in god per se, as a judaic, islamic, or christian "god"...but that the human mind is also apart of the cosmic, universal mind, which makes sense when one is talking about the pervasive, all inclusiveness of the "mind" described as "intelligent energy" of the Ahura Mazda. I don't think Zoroastrians are the only religion to understand the cosmic, all inclusive and pervasive nature of its particular "god."

We "observe" the cause and effect of spiritual energy day in and day out in material and nonmaterial form and happenstance. ...In Zism, there is the good energy of the Ahura Mazda, and the negative, destructive energy of the Angre Mangu (I did not spell that right, sorry). We know what the energy of "love" can do, we know what the energy of "justice" can do...we know what the energy of "intelligence" can do....and we know what destructive spiritual energies can do...which does nothing but destroy and devastate. What I just described are the differences in energy systems...or spiritual entities of good and evil, light and dark.....etc.

One of the reasons I am going to such lengths to explain all this, and have this discussion is that if Zoroastrianism as a good religion, that forms a good mind is to taught to others who are not genetic Zororastrians, then I believe the concepts of Zism has to be parlayed and explained in terms of science and how Zism affects the human mind and behavior.

One of the attractive considerations of Zism to me personally, is that it has one of the highest per capita concentrations of physicists, scientists, doctors, and educated people of all the religions. Surely, what I am saying is not anything new to this group....

I want to see Zoroastrianism become a modern religion...that is understood and practiced by man....because what is coming is a religious vacuum, in which 15 to 25% of Americans now state they are either Atheists, nonbelievers, or whatever.... . I don't think it is healthy for individuals or society to have so many people engaged in spiritual anarchy and left to their own devices, which has resulted in the "American disease" as my friends call it....depression, child abuse, crime, drug abuse, suicide, and now three generations of uneducated children growing up to be illiterate adults on many levels. Something, or a religion, or some force should be pointing the way toward self fulfillment, knowledge, success, how to be happy, and achieve what one wants to be....which all takes work, thought, and intelligent energy.

I talk to lots of young people and they are often of the opinion that becoming a successful "rap" star...just happens, and it is going to happen to them like magic. Others believe in religious magic...in that if they just pray to jesus or god...then magically they will be "given" what they want without any thought or effort. How can civilization progress...with such wrong thoughts, and lack of insight. Personally, I think and have observed that 'insight" is acquiring knowledge and wisdom from the great cosmic mind, the Ahura Mazda....through the transfer of intelligent energy. But, one has to acknowledge that it is there....to receive it first, and then move in the direction of learning and self evaluation.

There is one aspect which I've left out and won't discuss for now...but that is a consideration of the creative power of the Ahura Mazda, and the human mind. A couple of years ago, I found a German artist, whose gallery on the Internet was listed as the Ahura-Mazda. com....his art was so incredibly beautiful and scientific at the same time...in that the cosmic mind of the Ahura Mazda, in the form of electrons/molecules and structure, was then personalized into what the viewer of the art came to understand as something universal.. I wish I could find this man's art again and show it to you. Traditionalists may be offended at such art...but for a neoZoroastrian such as myself from another generation, time, and experience.. .his art was brilliant and inspired.... and displayed concepts of spiritual energy far beyond simple words.

Sorry for taking so much time to answer your questions... .thank you for asking. By asking questions, it forces one to think...and thinking is a form of worship is it not?

Ushta Hugs, Judy

--- On Tue, 9/29/09, MoobedyAr Mehran Gheibi wrote:

From: MoobedyAr Mehran Gheibi
Subject: Re: [Ushta] A short summary E =s MC squared and the Ahura Mazda
To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 5:15 AM

Dear Judy
dorood (= be healthy)

You wrote:"...Therefore , what is "spiritual". ...is intelligent energy, and although we cannot especially see it, what we can do is observe the effects of spirituality, and also discover such spirituality by deduction. ..."
There are some questions:
1- Any material attributes are sumation of the is components. Thus, if spirituality is a source of energy that is a material attribute, thus an elephant should have more intelligence than human being. What is your explanation?

2- The basick question is: Who/what/how and why has decided to put spiritual energy in an existence and not put in other one?

3- If spirituality is a source of energy, thus it is material too, and thus as other material ones should be observeable, measureable and ... Is it correct?

Nik-o shAd bAshid
KhodA negahdAr,
MoobedyAr MehrAn Gheibi.

--- On Tue, 9/29/09, Judy Weismonger wrote:

From: Judy Weismonger
Subject: Re: [Ushta] A short summary E =s MC squared and the Ahura Mazda
To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2009, 6:45 AM

Hello again...

Nothing is simply "material".. ..everything is made up of energy. What appears to be solid is actually "energy" compacted so tightly, that the photons (light energy) can bounce off it and the eye can see it.

Einstein's equation states in effect that energy and material substance are one in the same.....and are also interchangeable into each other.

"It followed from the special theory of relativity that mass and energy are both but different manifestations of the same thing -- a somewhat unfamiliar conception for the average mind. Furthermore, the equation E is equal to m c-squared, in which energy is put equal to mass, multiplied by the square of the velocity of light, showed that very small amounts of mass may be converted into a very large amount of energy and vice versa. The mass and energy were in fact equivalent, according to the formula mentioned above. This was demonstrated by Cockcroft and Walton in 1932, experimentally. "

Also...energy cannot be destroyed. When material matter appears to be destroyed, it merely changes back into energy. Therefore, the Ahura Mazda is both material and spiritual... as they are manifestations of the same substance, i.e. energy.

Therefore, what is "spiritual". ...is intelligent energy, and although we cannot especially see it, what we can do is observe the effects of spirituality, and also discover such spirituality by deduction.

There is no part of the universe, and now universes, or multiverses. ..that does not have energy in it. The most interesting discovery of late, is about Dark Energy...which physicists know is there, but can't detect it, or see it. They know Dark Energy is there, because the universe weighs more than what science is able to detect through current scientific "tools,"...so therefore, something, some other kind of "energy" is present.

Now what if....such unknown or Dark Energy is another manifestation of the Ahura Mazda we have not understood? Wouldn't that be a shocker. To wit:

"Astronomers know dark matter is there by its gravitational effect on the matter that we see and there are ideas about the kinds of particles it must be made of. By contrast, dark energy remains a complete mystery.. The name "dark energy" refers to the fact that some kind of "stuff" must fill the vast reaches of mostly empty space in the Universe in order to be able to make space accelerate in its expansion. In this sense, it is a "field" just like an electric field or a magnetic field, both of which are produced by electromagnetic energy.. But this analogy can only be taken so far because we can readily observe electromagnetic energy via the particle that carries it, the photon.

Some astronomers identify dark energy with Einstein's Cosmological Constant. Einstein introduced this constant into his general relativity when he saw that his theory was predicting an expanding universe, which was contrary to the evidence for a static universe that he and other physicists had in the early 20th century. This constant balanced the expansion and made the universe static. With Edwin Hubble's discovery of the expansion of the Universe, Einstein dismissed his constant. It later became identified with what quantum theory calls the energy of the vacuum.

More interesting is that the known energy "attracts" whereas Dark Energy "repels" or pushes away, causing an acceleration of the universe outward and beyond. In an article dated:

May 30, 2004, it stated that new evidence has confirmed that the expansion of the universe is accelerating under the influence of a gravitationally repulsive form of energy that makes up two-thirds of the cosmos, called Dark Energy.

This means that what is known about the Ahura Mazda has yet to be fully discovered.. .And...all energy systems impact the human mind, soul, behavior, and so called material existence... does it not?

Ushta Hugs, Judy

--- On Mon, 9/28/09, MoobedyAr Mehran Gheibi wrote:

From: MoobedyAr Mehran Gheibi
Subject: Re: [Ushta] A short summary (for Judy)
To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 9:15 AM

Dear Dino and Judy
If there is no spiritual entity, then intelligence/ wisedom should just be material attributes. Thus, like other material attributes such as weight, color, volume, specific weight....., we should be able of observing some extent of it in any material things such as rocks too. And the most important, it should be observeavle by material tools, just the same as othe material attributes.

Nik-o shAd bAshid
KhodA negahdAr,
MoobedyAr MehrAn Gheibi.

--- On Mon, 9/28/09, Special Kain wrote:

From: Special Kain
Subject: [Ushta] A short summary (for Judy)
To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, September 28, 2009, 11:45 AM

Dear Judy

There are Zoroastrian pantheists and panentheists.
Zoroastrian pantheism (and I'm paraphrasing Ushta member Koorosh here): God is the universe and all the stars within (Ahura) - with intelligence being its most adorable aspect (Mazda).
Zoroastrian panentheism: God is not only within the forces and workings of nature (immanence), but also The Greater Force beyond the physical world as we know it (transcendence) .

In modern terms Zoroastrianism is a possible combination of proto-existentialis t thought (to live in accordance with Asha simply means to live your own life rather than somebody else's, since Asha is whatever is true, right and genuine), American pragmatism (Charles Sanders Peirce, John Dewey, Richard Rorty), process philosophy (Heraclitus, Alfred North Whitehead) and European monism (Baruch Spinoza).
We're ethically obliged to pursue the truth relentlessly and be true to ourselves no matter what happens. It's about authenticity within contingency.

Ushta, Dino

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