måndag 25 juli 2011

Asha and Monism

None of them, of course.
Asha is not a person, asha does not take sides.
Asha is rather about such things as historical facts, population figures, financial resourcesm weapons and ammunition, the hearts and minds of people, bot those who live in Israel and Palestine and in other parts of the world, etc.
Asha is how things work. Yes, asha is indeed the law of physics in the widest sense of the term, as others have already pointed out here (Dino and Hampus) mental processes are also under Asha in a Monist worldview.
So in other words: Asha and Monism require each other. Zarathushtra COULD NOT HAVE BEEN a dualist. Only a monist (and a pragmatist at that) can use a concept such as Asha as the foundation for his or her teachings.

2011/7/25 Parviz Varjavand

Dear Hampus and Dino,

Is Asha with Israel or the Palestinians?


From: Special Kain
To: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, July 25, 2011 1:18:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Ushta] Asha and Druj

Dear Hampus

I agree!!!
When studying the works of Charles S. Peirce, John Dewey and Richard Rorty, I discovered that Zarathushtra was the first PRAGMATIST in history. Especially Peirce and Dewey were brilliant thinkers, but their key messages were already written down in The Gathas.
In modern words, Zarathushtra was not only a process philosopher ("the world's constant renewal"), but also a pragmatist.
Besides, ethics can only be situational and pragmatic, since ethicists are not obsessed with absolutes.


--- hampus lindblad schrieb am So, 24.7.2011:

Von: hampus lindblad
Betreff: Re: [Ushta] Asha and Druj
An: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Datum: Sonntag, 24. Juli, 2011 21:37 Uhr

Dear Parviz,

I find your message quite confusing. How could we not tag mental things to Asha when the whole foundation of Mazdayasna - unless I am completely mistaken in what I've gathered so far - is all about focusing on our mental processes as the foundation for our words and actions and therefore also the driving engine behind all human interactions and events?

The phenomena you describe with "Asha sales-persons" constitutes a problem in a community where there are no mental checks and balances. Where they don't actually practice what they teach, nor update and translate what they teach in rhythm with the surrounding culture. And that can in my mind only arise in environments where people have done exactly what you prescribe; i.e. stopped tagging mental things to Asha. And yes, it's obviously a very common problem in our world, but I don't see how an even further decoupling of Asha-awareness from our "mental things" would work to alleviate anything?

What makes Mazdayasna such a constructive (and eternally modern) way of thinking to me is that it seems to contain within itself a sort of self-regulatory system akin to the scientific method. It deals with ideas that work, much in the same way that science deals with what is proven to be approximately true through duplicable experiments and the gathering of empirical evidence. And just as genuine scientists never speak of any absolute truths but rather theories and pragmatic approximations, the same should in my mind go for the classification of thoughts, words and actions as Druj or Asha. It is the intention and aspiration towards Asha that one should dwell within - not the vain and narcissistic illusion of being a perfect Ashavan. Because of course Asha and Druj does not exists in and of themselves! Just like ethics...

From what I understand Asha is not a static mental state, a religious golden watch, attained as a sort of permanent gift awarded to the true believer for a long and faithful service. Asha is rather a intelligently designed, ethics-optimizing process, willfully projected and latched onto the neutral background processes that constitute the physical Universe. And Druj is simply the varying degrees of lack thereof. Zoroastrianism would at it's core then consist of highly situational and inherently adaptive, ethical formulas if you will. Nothing MORE and nothing LESS. Process philosophy! The antithesis of religious kitsch and empty rituals. And nothing like the religion seen practiced in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWQhFdeRTyk

The elder man being interviewed seems kind and loving but is hardly a great thinker. And it is not a great mystery, nor a tragedy, that the Parsis have trouble keeping their young interested if they have devolved into practicing more or less pure fetishism. I don't possess enough insight into Parsi culture to determine whether that is actually the case or not, all I'm doing is reacting to this one particular video and a couple of other glimpses of Parsi culture encountered on the net. So please forgive me anyone that might feel offended by what I'm writing.

With that said though, I won't deny that I actually see more of Ahura Mazda in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxEdqsr8QWI
Funny or not funny as it may seem in the eyes and ears of the beholder. I propose that one possible partial litmus test of a potential Ashavan is the ability to laugh at him or herself, or parodies of Zoroastrianism and/or Zarathushtra too for that matter.

I want to end by clarifying that I am of course very open to the possibility that I could be completely mistaken in regards to most, if not all, that is written above! I haven't even read through the complete Gathas as of yet, so my understanding of all this is very much limited for the time being - and I might be projecting heavily. So, to cut things short after all of my freewheeling above, could you please expand on your statement that to you Asha is "only Laws of Physics" that one should not "tag mental things to"?


On Sun, Jul 24, 2011 at 4:20 PM, Parviz Varjavand wrote:

Dear Folks,

To me, Asha is only Laws of Physics.
Because the minute you want to tag mental things to Asha, the waters become very muddy soon.
Everybody will claim that their Druj is Asha if you put up with it long enough.
The Asha sales-persons become too many, every self centered despot and dictator starts claiming that they are
an Ashavan but their Druji opposition is throwing curve balls at them and not letting their Asha succeed.
The mudslinging that "mine is Asha, yours is Druj" becomes a street brawl for all everytime.
How do you propose to solve that problem?
In old Zoroastrian Tradition, they would pour molten bronze on your chest; if it burned you and you died, yours was a Druj;
if it did not burn you and you lived, you were on the side of Asha.
They did this to Moobed Adorbad Marasepandan and it did not burn him, so they knew that what he preached was the Truth.
Try this on a friend you do not want around any longer! It does work!? They either ran away or die, either way you get rid of them!

Mehr Afzoon,
Parviz Varjavand

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