fredag 15 januari 2010

The Authenticity of The Gathas

Dear Ardeshir and Bahman

Nobody is bashing The Gathas or the Avesta for that matter on the Ushta List. I'm glad we can agree on that.
But what is this talk about Fahrang Mehr bashing The Gathas? When and where did he do that?
The Gathas is of course a fantastic text, the Avesta is useful and most interesting too.
But let's always follow Zarathushtra's instruction to place our own critical thinking before any text or book. This is what it means to live within the true spirit of Zarathushtra. We are mind-lovers even more than we are book-lovers.
But we love our books precisely because they enrich and inspire our minds.


2010/1/15 ardeshir farhmand

Dear Bahman

The poetic gathas are very AUTHENTIC, and almost the whole avesta has been written as a footnote to the gathic verses or as their commentary. Therefore the whole avesta must be and IS very dear to every true zarathushtian heart; whatever their background might be.

the gathas are referred to as "manthra/echoes of the spirit" and a-vesta is the key/code to understand and decipher their profound and unknown wisdom and so is the holy denkard.

I agree with u 100% on the point of avest-bashing. when some well-intentioned, but religiously illiterate zoroastrians/pseudo rationalists bash the avesta, and try to deny everything that zarathushtra said in his gathas, and ascribe their pseudo-science nonsense to the poetic gathas; then some government sponsored pseudo-researcher backed by radical fractions within iranian government DARES to call the LUMINOUS GATHAS non-authentic.

when the likes of DR. FARHANG MEHR deny all the original and ingenious teachings of the poetic gathas and claim these profound doctrines are not from Ashoo Zarthoesht, and twist the gathic terms, phrases and words to suit their pseudo-science; then what do u expect really from shia on line, rajabi or the like?????

the FACT is that some gatha translations have purposefully been twisted/altered, to fit a mechanical, so-called scientific and outdated 50ish view. these are the same people who deny that MINOO is "passion, energy, spirit, consciousness" and shamelessly write that there is NO Spirit in the gathas, then what do u expect from rajabi?????
Things have gone too far, we zoroastrians of all backgrounds must end this apologists and pseudo-rationalist nonsense; and study the poetic gathas in light of their ancient exegesis and profound and luminous commentary of the yore.
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Bahman Noruziaan wrote:

Hello Alexander,

You say: "Zarathushtra and The Gathas are nowadays loved and read across the world. What is the problem?"

There is no problem with this. There is a lot wrong however, with the trend that I have referred in my original posting below, i.e. AVESTA BASHING, you know!
And you do not seem to have grasped the point of my original posting. I however, am not surprised if neither you nor Dino, nor any new western converts or non-converts did get the point.
I am surprised that those of Zoroastrian descent do not get the possible repercussion of such claims made by Rajabi and his publisher.

Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 23:29:11 +0100
Subject: [Ushta] The Gathas, authentic!

Dear Bahman

Zarathushtra and The Gathas are nowadays loved and read across the world. What is the problem?
Furthermore, the interest in Zarathushtra and The Gathas are opening doors to the entire Zoroastrian culture and tradition. But people are not patrticularly interested in isolationist Parsism. THAT if anything is passe and not interesting at all. Who cares about a community obsessed wuth isolation and its oiwn cultural suicide?
But the Iranian branch of Zoroastrianism in all its forms is gaing renewed interest every day.
What is the problem with that? The Ushta List alone doubles its membership every year!


2010/1/14 Special Kain

Gee, Bahman, calm down and stop putting words into my mouth that I have never used. There's no need to go mad. Why should I want to attack Zarathushtra and the Gathas? I'm sorry if my take on Zoroastrianism isn't exactly yours.
And please don't freak out over something that Rajabi said. I don't know him, I have never met him online, but I guess that he's also looking for the truth.


--- Bahman Noruziaan schrieb am Do, 14.1.2010:

Von: Bahman Noruziaan
Betreff: RE: AW: [Ushta] The Gathas, not authentic??!!
An: "Ushta Ushta"
Datum: Donnerstag, 14. Januar 2010, 1:20

This is so bothering!
Discussions in this mailing list, have not only been focusded on creatring a new Zoroastriansism, but have also been defining a new Zarathushtra! !
By dicrediting Avesta and sticking to the Gathas, some poeople have made it even easier for those who seek attacking Zoroastrianism and Zoroastrain community. Now the potential attackers only need to focus their attempts on the Gathas and the personality of Zarathushtra. They need to only discredit the Gathas, since Avesta has already been discredited by ZOROASTRIANS themselves, they could claim. No wonder why the so called traditionalist Zoroastrians were and are so angry with this trend!
By the way for your information Dino, Zoroastrain traditions syas otherwise. Accordingly Zarathushtra had a very inquirinng mind, challenging his teachers and mentors. So he had got some sort of education at least. Does this remove him from the list of illiterates. Well you may not consider Zoroastrian literature and tradition authentic, but I and many living Zoroastrains do!


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