I believe you are missing Zarathushtra's point: His amor fati is not a happy feeling you should sit and wait for (if you want to just be happy, take a morphine shot!). It is a REQUIREMENT for being truthful to yourself and existence. So his point is not to sit and wait for a certain happy feeling to occur but to just do as he says because it is the only option you have! Spinoza and Nietzsche both agreed. Nietzsche made the distinction between nurturing an amor fati (Zarathushtra's ethics according to Nietzsche in "Ecce Homo") or nurturing defeatism. The point is that what you feel is totally not interesting. What you DECIDE however is everything. Being a Zoroastrian consequently means to accept Zarathushtra's strong and tough ethics and disregard how you feel at the moment. That is what this is all about (and the fact that many suffering Zoroastrians were Zoroastrian unto death shows it is possible). Think RIGHT to then speak right and act right! Leaving no room at all for destructive thoughts. But said being a Zoroastrian would be easy? Nobody ever promised you that. We only promised you that as a Zoroastrian you would be truthful to your own possibilities. That's what this is all about. Awe us not what yiu feel at first, it is what you get as a product of your DECISION to love destiny, to become one with Asha and a part of Ahura Mazda.
Ushta
Alexander
2009/11/3 Georgios
Dear Parviz,
What you are saying makes sense only in theory. I don't think there are a lot of people being grateful for being ill, of having a feeling of awe towards their virus.
Intellectually you might be correct, but in practice this attitude doesn't work for me personally.
In a battle there are probably very few of the defeated that admire the greatness of their enemies. Everybody just wants to win, no matter how. As about the scientists fighting a disease, I cannot imagine how they feel, I guess not disgust but not even awe. A scientist has to do his job, to kill the virus, not matter what he feels.
Dear Alexander,
What exactly do you mean by "If you only see disease then I guess you have chosen not to see health" ? These are two opposite conditions. You can't have them both. Of course there is health, but there is disease as well. Can you please explain it?
You say "Georgios chooses himself what he wants to see and HOW he wants to view it". This is irrelevant because disease is a disease, how else can you see it? How do you personally feel when you are ill?
I am too a big fan of Nietzsche, but I cannot agree with all he said. Amor fati is not for me. Sorry but what's "fate"?
--- In Ushta@yahoogroups.com, Alexander Bard
>
> Dear Parviz
>
> Thank you!!!
> I could not have answered Georgios any better.
> I would add that if you see disease you must honestly also see health.
> If you only see disease then I guess you have chosen not to see health. And
> you have not viewed the world honestly.
> This is precisely what Zarathushtra means with constructive mentality (asha)
> as opposed to destructive mentality (druj).
> The trick is not to deny druj, according to Zarathushtra, but to see druj
> THROUGH asha.
> Georgios chooses himself what he wants to see and HOW he wants to view it.
> That is where we are left with Zarathushtra's strong ethics. Nietzsche
> called it "amor fati" (the love of destiny) but Zarathushtra invented it.
>
> Ushta
> Alexander/who consequently has no problem with euthansia whatsoever if that
> is what WE choose to practice to define ourselves...
>
> 2009/11/2 Parviz Varjavand
>
> >
> > Dear Georgio,
> >
> > The is a "war" and there is an "art of war" or "martial arts". You admire
> > the martial arts of a warrior who is good even when you are dying by his
> > blow. This takes the power of abstract thinking, and not every one is
> > capable of having it.
> >
> > Ahoora is sacred because all that has existence is sacred. Sacred here
> > means something that you stand in awe looking at rather than something that
> > you have to fall down in front of and lick its boots. How can you look at
> > the Himalayas and not have a feeling of Awe come over you? That is the kind
> > of sacredness we are talking about. It again takes the power of abstraction
> > to look at a small pebble and see a Himalaya there and bow your head in
> > respect there too.
> >
> > With life, Mazda begins and the feeling of Awe increases much more. Just
> > think of the scientists that are working on a vaccine for the swine flue. I
> > am sure their feeling is one of amazement of how complex this new virus is
> > rather than one of disgust. Yes, there is Mazda, a kind of a Mind, in the
> > virus of the swine flue. It tends to protect its own survival against all
> > our medications. Is that not fantastic? So it may kill you, so what, it is
> > still amazing that it does what it does to survive and protect itself. I
> > salute the Mazda in the swine flue virus,I will do all I can to kill it but
> > I still stand in awe of it, so go ahead and sue me if you do not like what I
> > have to say!?
> >
> > Ushta te,
> > Parviz Varjavand
> >
> > --- On *Mon, 11/2/09, Georgios
> >
> >
> > From: Georgios
> > Subject: [Ushta] asha & disease
> > To: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Monday, November 2, 2009, 12:07 PM
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Alexander,
> >
> > Reading your messages, I'm still trying to understand your kind of
> > amazement at the universe. The universe is what it is, in the macro scale it
> > would be the same without us humans around. It's not good or bad. It's not
> > perfect.
> > You have stated many times that you hold the world as sacred. This keeps my
> > mind busy. Would you be kind enough to explain it to me? I have a specific
> > topic: diseases.
> > How can we venerate a world full of (lethal) diseases? If Asha or Ahura
> > Mazda is everywhere, in every molecule of our bodies, why are there diseases
> > that kill us, or at least make us suffer?
> > I'd like to see as well other people's opinions on this subject� How about
> > euthanasia?
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