The Concept of Freedom (Free Will in Zoroastrianism) Part 2

Absolutely!!!
We would not even consider a concept like "freedom" unless it was provided to us by others, through dialogue or teaching or through texts. So in this sense we also need to have an idea of the concept of freedom for ourselves to even begin considering it.
But I don't speak of any rock star hedonism here. When I speak of setting drives and desires free to do their thing without interference (or at least as little interference as possible) I'm merely speaking of what Jaques Lacan meant was the underlying ethical principle of psychoanalysis (stop lying to yourself, live truthfully!). And I certainly have not seen any better ethical ideal than Lacan's in say the past 100 years. It also helps that this principle is completely consistent with Zarathustra's ethical imperative, which as I have said before is independent of whether we believe in "free will" or not.
Ushta
Alexander

2009/11/15 Special Kain

Dear Alexander,

I'm fully aware of the fact that «free will» has a different meaning to Christians, Muslims and most western philosophers and neuroscientists, and I guess that Rory is now aware of it, too. I don't separate our wills from our desires and passions, but I wouldn't dismiss rationality. There's also a connection between our wills and rationality, so I'd rather use a much more rationalistic vocabulary, since all the talk about setting our desires and drives free sounds a little too much like rock star hedonism. And I agree with Jürgen Habermas when he says that deliberative will is free will («Überlegter Wille ist freier Wille»).

A few words about your definition of freedom as «the removal of objections for the correctly set emotional platform to work its way through our words and our actions»: To me it seems that what you're referring to is a very common experience when one is experienced with meditation. It's what just happens when one is meditating even for a few months only. And it can actually grow and become an extraordinary experience that transcends one's identity and everyday life. But still there's more to freedom that such a necessary step: An increase in freedom and intelligence is what precedes this necessary «removal of objections for the correctly set emotional platform». This removal is a refinement of one's attitude already, but it starts with the praise of intelligence (or supreme wisdom): Freedom stems from one's confidence in and praise of intelligence.

Ushta, Dino

--- Alexander Bard schrieb am So, 15.11.2009:


Von: Alexander Bard
Betreff: [Ushta] The Concept of Freedom
An: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Datum: Sonntag, 15. November 2009, 20:31



Absolutely, Dino!
But please remember that when we vast majority of people in the world speak of a "free will" (such as the Christian or Muslim free will to choose or oppose God/Allah) they mean will as something SEPARATE from the body, that which the gods can hold responsible when putting us humans before their moral courts (such as on judgment day). Therefore also spearate from drives and desires, not the battlefield of drives and desires and their eventual compromise.
That drives and desires combat with each other to control the will of a body (and thereby produce a self in our minds) is a very modern idea of "will" which is not historically associated with free will but rather has its roots in the thinking of Freud and Nietzsche. Which is why I prefer to talk of drives and desires instead of will and our ethical mission as Mazdayasni to set those drives and desires free.
Ushta
Alexander