The Substance of Humanity (was: Asha and the Bikini)

Dear Parviz

What a wonderful topic and discussion!
The answer to your most interesting question lies in the CONSEQUENCES of the actions. The long-term effects of the actions.
Even humans are known to eat their babies during extreme conditions of war and malnutrition. Even if this sounds horrible to us modern human beings it can still be "asha-vahishta" during extreme conditions when this is THE LEAST BAD ACTION POSSIBLE considering the long-term effects. I would even add that TRUE ETHICS is precisely to be able to take the leats bad option - even if it is horrible - during the most difficult conditions, This is what makes us proud to be humans. Zoroastrianism is not for softies. ;-)
The reason why we humans are ethical beings rather than just animals is precisely because we can speculate and take different possible outcomes into account (what you correctly describe as the realm of minoo). This is why Zarathushtra added the vahishta to the realm of the minoo. And not only did he point out that our mental capacity makes us ethical beings, the true radicality of Zarathushtra is his historically unique claim that OUR ETHICAL BEING IS OUR VERY SUBSTANCE. You minoo is IDENTICAL with your thoughts, words and actions.

Ushta
Alexander

2011/8/19 Parviz Varjavand

Dear Dino,

I think you are a poet as well as a philosopher and I like your views more and more as I go over them. I know that as men, we tend to purify things and that works at times against us, like making sugar out of beats, while if we ate the beat itself, it would be much more beneficial for us. Now about Asha in the woods, it is Asha in the state that the mind of men has not tried to extract its essence out of it. So if I reach out my hand in the woods and touch a poisonous snake and it bites me and I die, nothing BAD has happened to me, it is just Asha of how things are in the woods that has happened to me. When a cat gives birth, the mother cat is known to eat one or more of its kittens, this is just ASHA then and mama cat is not doing something BAD or DROJ. But if a mama human eats her baby, we do all sit up and shout DROJ, DROJ. So when does the Asha in nature become the DROJ? Qaddafi in Libya is like the snake in the woods, or is there a difference just because we assume that he is more of a human than an animal? How much of the consciousness of a Swede does Qaddafi need to poses before the laws of Alex can apply to him?

Mehr, Parviz


From: Special Kain
To: "Ushta@yahoogroups.com"
Sent: Thu, August 18, 2011 1:13:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Ushta] Asha and the Bikini

Dear Behnaz

Asha is not a state of mind. When you're in the woods, you can reach out your hand and touch asha everywhere. For better or worse, the world is as it is.

Ushta, Dino

Von: Behnaz Larsen
An: "Ushta@yahoogroups.com"
Cc: "Ushta@yahoogroups.com"
Gesendet: 20:36 Donnerstag, 18.August 2011
Betreff: Re: [Ushta] Asha and the Bikini


Dear Dino,
I have to read this a couple of times..... Is Asha then unreachable? I thought we have to strive to reach the state of Asha, as though it were there to be reached with our hands, thoughts, words and deeds. If Asha is there because it is, then cancer cells could also be Asha, assuming they are caused due to genetic irregularities. They are there and we have to decide what attitude we will have towards them.
I guess I should read your respond again.
Thank you

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 18, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Special Kain wrote:

Dear Behnaz

Asha has nothing to do with social norms. Asha is the truth as in "that which truly exists". It has more to do with natural phenomena such as plant growth than with socially accepted behaviors.
Asha as such is neither good nor bad. If we translate asha as "righteousness", it should not be mistaken for a moralistic imperative. It rather refers to the regularities in the natural world (the course of the sun and the stars, certain plants grow under different conditions, etc.). It is the habits that we can observe in the natural world.
There are indeed regularities in human behaviors that can be explained (neuro-)psychologically, physiologically, sociologically and so on. But it says nothing about ethics. The Greek word "ethos" means "Haltung" in German ("attitude" in English). Zarathushtra stressed vohu manah in relation with asha: it is one's attitude towards that which truly exists that matters ethically in this context. For example, one's willingness to live truthfully and in accordance with asha (asha-vahishta, "furthering asha").

As Parviz suggested, we should keep asha and asha-vahishta separate and not confuse them with each other. Asha has to do with the engine of your car, asha-vahishta has to do with the pollution of the environment and constructing eco-friendlier cars in order to protect the environment.

Ushta,
Dino


Von: Behnaz Larsen
An: "Ushta@yahoogroups.com"
Cc: Ushta ; zoroastrians
Gesendet: 1:21 Donnerstag, 18.August 2011
Betreff: Re: [Ushta] Asha and the Bikini


I am not an expert on Asha, but the Asha that I believe in, does not consider a nude person a criminal. You cannot call yourself a wise society when you spend your time and money on arresting people for being nude or ugly or eccentric etc. Not all laws and social norms are wise. Most of the time the laws are out of date. So if the norms are not wise then following them couldn't be according to Asha.

Sent from my iPad

On Aug 17, 2011, at 11:30 PM, Parviz Varjavand wrote:


Friends,

Let me explain why I think there is no fixed Asha when we are in the Minoo or
Mental realm.
How much of their body can they expose when ladies go swimming?
There are some nudist colonies where they can take all their cloths off and
swim in the nude.
Next, in most beaches in the West, ladies are allowed to wear a Bikini and swim.
In many European beaches, ladies can take the top part of their Bikini off and
no one will mind.

In America ladies will get arrested for taking the top part of their Bikini off
as it is considered "Indecent Exposure".
After reading so far you may ask "So what? What is your point?"
My point is that between going around in total nudity and where the women have
to go around totally covered and not allowed to swim in public beaches
altogether, all kinds of laws exists on the book. These laws are man made and
not absolute. One should fight the ones one feels are unjust, but to do the
right thing at the right time to achieve the right results depends on what beach
it is that you want to go swim in. The law that you will sink and suffocate if
your hands and feet are tied by hundred kilos of chain before you are thrown in
the sea is Asha and absolute, the laws of physics will kill you there and not
the laws of man. Laws of Asha in Physics are much more unyealding than man made
laws where you have a wide range of possibilities allowing you to bargain for
Asha-Vahishta or even make Asha Vahishta happen in the shape of changing the
law.

Parviz Varjavand