Zarathushtra never quoted any books himself.
As a matter of fact, he probably never wrote any books either.
The Gathas is probably a text written by followers of Zarathushtra after his death who just wanted to help people remember the wisdom of his MIND, not create a law to be followed blindly. Otherwise, The Gathas would have been full of all sorts of commandments but the text is not!
Sure, it's a brilliant text, but it's MINDS that are holy to Zoroastrians, not books. As the author of The Gathas himself is adamant in pointing out. And as ANY process philosopher would be adamant in pointing out too.
To me there are two decent religions that hold up well in the 21st century and they are Zoroastrianism and Taoism. Which one we choose to belong to is a matter of taste.
Ushta
Alexander
2010/6/23 Special Kain
Thirdly, if Zoroastrianism was all about worshipping old and dusty books - no matter how inspiring their contents may be to someone who's reading them -, why would Zarathushtra have stressed ACTIONS and THE CAPACITY TO THINK and WISE CHOICES? If all answers could be found in such old books, why would he want to stress this genuine curiosity about existence?
--- Special Kain
Von: Special Kain
Betreff: Re: [Ushta] The End of a Conflict - and what we can learn from it
An: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
CC: "Mehrdad Farahmand"
Datum: Mittwoch, 23. Juni, 2010 10:46 Uhr
In other words, we have to make it abundantly clear to everyone - and I'm repeating myself here - that Zarathushtra was probably the first process philosopher (and I'm sure our dear brother Mehrdad will agree) and the first existentialist and pragmatist. Persian philosophy at its best!!!
--- Special Kain
Von: Special Kain
Betreff: Re: [Ushta] The End of a Conflict - and what we can learn from it
An: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
CC: "Mehrdad Farahmand"
Datum: Mittwoch, 23. Juni, 2010 10:42 Uhr
That's great news!!!
I actually got worried that contemporary Zoroastrianism would mainly be nothing but primitive pre-Islam, since so many brothers and sisters are drawing such a picture of our philosophy on The Ushta List. And then there would be no need to pursue anything Zoroastrian anymore, because I'm not a Muslim and never will be.
To me Zoroastrianism is existentialism without Sartre's or Camus' horribly annoying "gloom and doom" attitude, but combined with what such brilliant American minds as Whitehead, Peirce and Dewey would propose many, many centuries after Zarathushtra' s death. Then please add the wonderful praise of intelligence and creativity, and I'M ALL FOR IT!!!
Ushta,
Dino
--- Alexander Bard
Von: Alexander Bard
Betreff: Re: [Ushta] The End of a Conflict - and what we can learn from it
An: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
CC: "Mehrdad Farahmand"
Datum: Mittwoch, 23. Juni, 2010 09:54 Uhr
Dear Dino
What makes you think that?
I know hundreds of Iranian, Indian and Western Zoroastrians, few if any of them show any traits of Islamic or Christian thinking in their ideas during conversation. I have even often been forced to claim that "Zoroastrians are more Zoroastrian than they even know themselves". This shows in their lifestyles and appearances rather than in their theorizing. So it is all very pragmatist.
There are a few rather loud voices around to seem to suffer from some kind of "Islam-envy" , but I can assure you they are a small minority.
I wouldn't even have considered my conversion to Zoroastrianism otherwise.
Older Zoroastrians love Immanuel Kant and not the Abrahamic prophets. Younger Zoroastrians take naturally to postmodern theory and pragmatism. The rest is up to people like us to change and influence.
Ushta
Alexander
2010/6/23 Special Kain
Dear friends
Ardeshir has proved to be a great contributor to The Ushta List. But I personally won't miss his lengthy linguistic analyses. Etymology doesn't dictate my life.
But we should keep Mehrdad!!! He seems to be a really, really smart guy, and it's best to keep the scientists! We need people who think critically.
What I have learned from this silly conflict is that the less Islam and Christian theology I see in Mazdayasna philosophy, the more I'm part of a minority group WITHIN a minority group.
Ushta,
Dino
--- Alexander Bard
Von: Alexander Bard
Betreff: [Ushta] The End of a Conflict - and what we can learn from it
An: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
CC: "Mehrdad Farahmand"
Datum: Mittwoch, 23. Juni, 2010 01:26 Uhr
Dear Parviz
In all honesty, I have no problem disagreeing with people, but when I get shouted at for disagreeing with them and for not bowing to their "truths", that is when my patience starts to vain. Isn't that the case with us all?
When they then move on to attack my friends and try to organise conflicts in between us, that's when I have had enough. Ushta is a forum for contemporary Zoroastrianism, it's not a battlefield.
I frankly don't know what Ardeshir is up to. But I can't help noticing that he has basically taken over this forum say the last six months with endless tirades that really are not communicating anything but rather just DICTATING. And that is not what a mailing list like Ushta is about. This forum is all about civilized dialogue.
Ardeshir is likely to continue posting his lengthy lectures online. Good! Those who are interested may ask him to send them his postings directly. We don't need Ushta for that. Most people here are more interested in a proper dialogue. Count me in!
But if Mehrdad leaves - who DOES communicate and does discuss and does so in a very cilivized manner too - this would be sad loss for us all on this forum. Is there anything we can do to make Mehrdad stay?
Ushta
Alexander
2010/6/22 Parviz Varjavand
Hi Dino,
Our problem is that our conversations with the Farahmands deteriorated on two level. One was the realm of personal insults, a very very sad and unfortunate part indeed. I had an episode with someone named Ardalan many years ago and this was the second time that the insults got downgraded to very personal levels. The second part was calling the point of views of each-other names. I feel that this second unfortunate episode was even worst than the first misunderstandings between the two sides of this arguments. It deprived us of learning from each other, and learning is all that we are here for and that we feel our religion is all about.
I wish that Mr. Ardeshir and Dr. Mehrdad Farahmand would give us a second chance in us learning from them, and maybe even them learning from us. I promise, but you and Alex and the rest of the readers should also agree to hold back on any show of emotions which may make others loose it. We are not street people fighting over drug turf here, we are supposed to be Ashavans, always seeking the highest truth, Vahishtayi Ashem.
Ushta,
Parviz
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