fredag 18 juni 2010

Healing, angels and other superstitious nonsense Part 2

Dear Ardeshir

The texts are absolutely useless if you read them without using your MIND.
They are not there to be followed, they are there to inspire you to THINK for yourself and to think fresh.
Otherwise you have just turned Zoroastrianism into Shia Islam.
And what's the point then? If we are to worship books instead of minds, then why be Zoroastrians at all and not just go Shia?
I can assure you one thing, if Zarathushtra was alive today and had joined us here he at Ushta he would not even mention the term "angel". But he would have taken us all to Cern in Switzerland to see how marvelous modern science is and what a magnificent world it is exposing.
Now, THAT is what motivated Zarathushtra! THIS is what his worship is all about.
And don't degrade the human mind. It is the OUTMOST MANIFESTATION of Mazda. It is sacred and not something marginal in Zarathushtra's worldview.


2010/6/18 ardeshir farhmand
Dear Alexander,

mazda is the genius, creativity, wit and vision at the root of being/existence. it is not just limited to the minds of human beings. and for ur info i am reading the gathas with passion and as if i have conversation with the bard himself. in fact, the poetry is composed as such. the point is the gathas are not MOLDY old books as some MOLDY, old, bored minds suggest here, they are fresh, timeless expressions of a brilliant genius who communicate with us.


On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 12:32 AM, Alexander Bard wrote:

Dear Ardeshir and Bahman

In ALL Indo.-European cultures, forces of nature are given PERSONALITIES as to be explained.
This does NOT mean that they actually ARE or are INTENDED TO BE PERCEIVED as personalities.
Zarathushtra was actually VERY clear about this: Whatever Mazda IS, this is what it IS, it is NOT what we GUESS it to bem, IT IS WHATEVER IT IS!!!
To be a Mazdayasni, a true Mazdayasni, is therefore to be INTELLIGENT ENOUGH (in other words: To use YOUR VERY OWN MIND WISELY) to UNDERSTAND that REALITY is more important than your very own private guesses of what somebody believed 3,000 years ago.
Read it WIT your minds in FULL USE. Not with your midns TURNED OFF. OK?
Read The Gathas as if you are HAVING A CONVERSATION with its author, not as if he is some stupid messiah giving you orders what to believe.
Otherwise, you are as silly as fundamenalist Muslims and Christians and I will lose all hope of ever being able to share religigion with you guys with my decency intact. Honestly!
This is not about etymology, Ardeshir, this is about saving us all from shortsighted idiocy.


2010/6/18 ardeshir farhmand

Dear Alexander,

so to be clear are u saying that"limited human mind" is mazda????? and before humanity there was no mazda?????? is this mind something wholly human or includes other known/unknown intelligences???? furthermore, can u tell me how u equate mazda with mind/limited human mind etymologically????

On Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 7:03 PM, Bahman Noruziaan wrote:


The history of Zoroastrianism proves that this statement of yours:
"this is why he presented and preached a new religion called MAZDYASNA (The Worship of Mind)." is false!
He preached a religion in which a being is the source of existence and mind, an he called it, Mazda or Mazda Ahura!
Calling your religion of worship of mind as Mazdayasna, is very misleading indeed!


Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 22:51:56 +0200
Subject: [Ushta] Healing, angels and other superstitious nonsense

Let me just once anf or all state the very BASIC PREMISE of all Zarathustra's teachings:
Zarathushtra believed in the power of the sound mind, this is why he pressnted and preached a new religion called MAZDYASNA (The Worship of Mind).
Zarathushtra was not interested in HIS OWN BELIEFS. He was totally obsessed with TRUTH adn perfectly open to the possibility that his beliefs may be wrong but that THE POWER OF MIND would always rule at the end of the day.
Whether ZAATHUSHTRA believed in the existence of angels or not is therefore of NO INTEREST WHATSOEVER, neither for us and NEITHER FOR ZARATHUSHTRA HIMSELF.
Zarathushtra wanted us to follow HIM as WORSHIPPERS OF MIND. He did NOT, I repeat NOT, want it to SLAVISHLY copy HIS BELIEFS or the beliefs of his contemporaries.
Rather he wanted US to PROVE HIM WRONG!!! This would make him HAPPY! Because only by following Zarathushtra IN ATTITUDE are we true ZOROASTRIANS.
It totally and absolutely beats me that after all these years Parviz and Arthur and Rory and Dino and a few others are CAPABLE of understanding the very basic premise of ZARATHUSHTRA's TEACHINGS.
Too many people still want to make Zarathushtra into a boring know-it-all divine messiah figure.
But HE WAS NOT and he was very VERY clear on this point.
Have I made myself clear on what Mazdayasna is all about?
As for angels, people who still believe in the existence of angels in 2010 are complete and utter idiots! Hiding behind quotes from 3,000 years ago to defend such nonsense only makes it even more idiotic. And that's that.

2010/6/17 Bahman Noruziaan

Hello Alexander,

Ignoring the word angel that in my opinion reflects the Abrahamic view of spiritual world (mainyoo in Zoroastrian teminology), how do you know that Zarathushtra did not beleive in other spiritual entities? How are you so ceratin?


Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 08:54:21 +0200
Subject: [Ushta] Healing, angels and other superstitious nonsense

Dear Friends
Well, I certainly do not believe in the existence of any angels and neither did Zarathushtra.
This may be popular within some folk religion, but it is not a practice that we as contemporary science-minded Zoroastrians should endorse. Angels are humbug.
That's my ten cents on this issue.

2010/6/16 ardeshir farhmand

Dear Zaneta

the spell/formual manthra for well-being/weal is traditionally Yasna 68.11. also according to vendidad Yasna 54.1 has healing energy. In addition, a less known, but extremely powerful formula is Yasna 31.21.

the spells/formulas/manthras MUST be chanted in the holy speech or the mysterious, ancient and most enchantingl avestan language.

regarding choosing a divine attribute/angel by each zoroastrian, the practice is well and alive among the iranians. this is reported in a number of places including revayats and sad-dar or one hundred gates, but the source is the gathic commentaries book of SUDGAR.

if u need the correct spelling of the above prayers with the actual umlauts, let me know and i will send them to u privately.


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