And I'm getting tired of these people who advance an islamic agenda among us by believeing in all kinds of superstitious nonsense and trying to turn the Gathas into an inferior older Qoran.
Nothing could do Zoroastrianism a bigger disservice than that. Mazda is NOT ALLAH!
Mazda means "mind". Period. A Mazdayasni is somebody who is proud of his own capacity TO THINK. This does not require any book whatsoever.
So The Gathas is a decent inspiration, but it is certainly not a holy book in any way.
To believe that a book if holy is IN ITSELF Islamic. That's where all the problems begin. With people who can't and don't dare to THINK FOR THEMSELVES but only behide behind their own belittleing guesses of WHAT OTHER PEOPLE THINK.
That is not mind-ful, that is MIND-LESS!
2010/6/19 Parviz Varjavand
Dear Alex and Dino,
Sometimes back we wasted much time and exchanged in excess of twenty posts so that I could show that there is no "Great" in breaking down the word Mazda anywhere embedded in it. Mazda does not mean "Great Mind", it simply means "Thinker" or "That Which has Mental Ability". The collective of all forms of life which can reason one way or another are very wast and that may give us the notion of a "Great Mind"; but in breakdown of the word Mazda itself, we do not have "Great" incorporated anywhere in it. One translation of "Mazda" could be "Minder", a new word coined, but rather to the point as far as the meaning goes.
Next we must try and see what we mean by a "Minder" or one who uses its Mind to do something. The Venous Fly Trap is a plant that does very clever things in order to catch insects and eat them. But is the venous fly trap using its Mind to do so? The King Salmon swims great distances to get back to its spawning ground and lay its eggs there, but is the Salmon using its Mind to do so? These are questions worth discussing for me, otherwise the old argument that a Big Mind in heavens is behind all that is happening is so primitive that any time devoted to it seems like a waste of time to me.
If we say that in ALL that IS, a great mind is manifesting itself, I feel that is a Mazdaist and a Monist position and I will go along with it. But the Monotheist position that the "Great Mind" was first and MADE US exactly as a carpenter makes chairs is almost a dead argument amongst the intellectuals of today. Wake up and smell the roses, o bible class graduates of all shade form and shape!
--- On Sat, 6/19/10, Alexander Bard
From: Alexander Bard
Subject: [Ushta] What is Mazda?
Date: Saturday, June 19, 2010, 1:20 AM
Dear Bahman and Dino
I agree with Dino 100%.
As far as I know, the human minds are the ONLY manifestations of Mazda we have enocuntered so far.
This does not exclude that there could be other intelligent beings out there. But humanity has not met any of them so far.
This is of course the Zoroastrian stance on the issue. We only believe what we can experience, no more hocus pocus. Mazda means "Mind" and is not LITERALLY one person.
The idea that there is huge father in the sky with an enormous penis to match is ABRAHAMIC. It is NOT Zoroastrian. Zarathushtra's concept of The Divine was far more sophisticated.
2010/6/19 Special Kain
So what was first, then? The chicken or the egg?
So far we only know that Mazda means "great wisdom". As Mazdayasni we are worshipping and celebrating great wisdom. And Mazda is therefore the total sum of all wise minds in this world. Everytime someone has learned to cope with existence creatively and intelligently, to make wise decisions that turn out to be constructive in the long run, it's a good excuse for another party.
We don't know about other wise minds yet, so until some highly intelligent alien lifeform appears on this planet, we fallibilistically claim that we're the only wise minds there are.
There are priorities and statements that are most important. For example, the doctrine of Asha is 100% monistic. Secondly, Asha means two things: the true order of things and the relentless pursuit of the truth.
So theres no reason to take someone's fairy tales for granted if their stories have turned out to be nothing but fairy tales. Even if it were Zarathushtra's very own fairy tales!
My ten cents,
--- Bahman Noruziaan
Von: Bahman Noruziaan
Betreff: RE: [Ushta] Healing, angels and other superstitious nonsense
An: "Ushta Ushta"
Datum: Samstag, 19. Juni, 2010 02:43 Uhr
"But he would have taken us all to Cern in Switzerland to see how marvelous modern science is and what a magnificent world it is exposing."
I have a very strong feeling that he would! But I can not assure anyone, that is too strong to claim!
"And don't degrade the human mind. It is the OUTMOST MANIFESTATION of Mazda". So what then, is Mazda human mind itself or human mind is a manifiastation of Mazda?
To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
From: bardissimo@gmail. com
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 01:41:33 +0200
Subject: [Ushta] Healing, angels and other superstitious nonsense
The texts are absolutely useless if you read them without using your MIND.
They are not there to be followed, they are there to inspire you to THINK for yourself and to think fresh.
Otherwise you have just turned Zoroastrianism into Shia Islam.
And what's the point then? If we are to worship books instead of minds, then why be Zoroastrians at all and not just go Shia?
I can assure you one thing, if Zarathushtra was alive today and had joined us here he at Ushta he would not even mention the term "angel". But he would have taken us all to Cern in Switzerland to see how marvelous modern science is and what a magnificent world it is exposing.
Now, THAT is what motivated Zarathushtra! THIS is what his worship is all about.
And don't degrade the human mind. It is the OUTMOST MANIFESTATION of Mazda. It is sacred and not something marginal in Zarathushtra' s worldview.