måndag 21 juni 2010

What is Mazdayasna?

I agree 100% with Parviz!!!
Bahman thinks Zoroastrianism is a solid RELIGION with only one faith and only one interpretation. Like Catholicism under The Pope or Shia Islam under The Ayatollah. But there are no popes or ayatollahs in Zoroastrianism, there were never was, and there never should or will be. Zoroastrianism is NOT Abrahamic!
Interestingly, Bahman does not quote Zarathushtra himself to make his claim!!!
The truth is that Zoroastrianism always incorporated a MULTITUDE of faiths and beliefs, and this begins ALREADY with Zarathushtra Spitama himself.
Because Zarathushtra did NOT promote ONE FAITH ONLY.
He promoted Truth BEFORE Faith. Zarathushtra said that we should not take his views for granted but rather RENEW AND REFRESH OUR LOOK AT THE WORLD over and over again.
This is the very FUNDAMENT of Zarathustra's message.
Also, Ahura and Mazda do NOT mean the same thing. The name Ahura Mazda is not tautological. Ahura , means "being" and Mazda means "mind" and of the two, mind is what we are mostly concerned with. This is why we are Mazdayasni and NOT Ahurayasni!
At least Parviz and I are. We have never recognized any other religion than Mazdayasna or Mazdaism!!!

2010/6/21 Parviz Varjavand


Are the high dastoors of India followers of your "old age Mazdayasni Zartoshti Religion"? How about the Pundol and the Ilm Khoshnoom groups? How about the Mehr Babayi Zartoshties? What I want to say is that any religion comes in many shades of interpretations. As a small group of Mazdaists, we have our own nomenclature and what we say Ahoora means to us may be different from what Ahura means to 99.99 percent of other Zoroastrians. We feel this is an absolutely legitimate and moral venture and you seen to feel differently. If it was ancient times, you would probably burn few of us at the stakes to stop our line of thinking. For now, I guess your showing your anger and disappointment at us is the best you can do, so we should get used to it and go on with our lives and our Din. By Din we do not mean religion, we mean Da'ena or that inner vision that has to make seance to us as we look at the world. Your vision does not make sense to us, so what use is the exchange of insults and show of anger.


--- On Sun, 6/20/10, Bahman Noruziaan wrote:

From: Bahman Noruziaan

Subject: RE: [Ushta] Healing, angels and other superstitious nonsense
To: "Ushta Ushta"
Date: Sunday, June 20, 2010, 7:15 PM


2500 years ago, Darius the Great the Achaemneid King has said:

Great God is Ahura Mazda, who created the Earth, who created Man, who created happiness for Man. He asks Ahura Mazda to protect this land (Iran) from lie, draught and war.

Darius was 2500 years closer to you and I to Zarathushtra! He is not asking human mind to protect his land nor he claims human mind has created Earth!

The words Mazda, Ahura, Ahura Mazda, Mazda Ahura, Ohrmazd, Ourmazd are all the same in Zoroastrianism.

Even in cotemporary Iran, non-Zoroastrian Iranians use terms such as "Iran-e Ahuraii", "Azar-e Ahuraii", "Sarzamin-e Ahuraii", meaning Goldy Iran, Goldy Fire, Goldy Land.

The above words all refer to a being which is beyond human existence/mind and is the source of life and wisdom!

And this does not do anything with Shia Islam Alexander!!! !
It is the old age, Mazdayasni Zartoshti Religion!

To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
From: bardissimo@gmail. com
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 23:09:51 +0200
Subject: Re: [Ushta] Healing, angels and other superstitious nonsense

Dear Bahman

We are Mazdayasni and not Ahurayasni.
It is not being that we worship, but being WITH mind.
Enough said.


2010/6/20 Bahman Noruziaan


So what?

I can not express my opinion about this matter. I can not say that claming that Mazdayasna as preached by Zarathustra and Zoroastrianism has not been the worship of human mind but believing in a being that is beyond our human existence and is the source of life and wisdom; is misnomer and is wrong! I should not say that beacuse you do not like it!

Then how about this when you write:

“And Bahman should not tell Dino that Dino is not a Zoroastrian. That is a preposterous statement! Especially coming from somebody whose idea of Zoroastrianism seems to be that Zoroastrianism is a form of Shia Islam.”

You may have very little idea of what my idea of Zoroastrainism is, very little if any! And you, claim that my understaning of Zoroastrainism is close to Shia Islam! I guess you claim to be expert in both Zoroastrainism and Shia Islam as well, that gives you the authiroty to make such a claim!

I was born in a Zoroastrian family, I was raised with Zoroastrian tradition and did my Navjote at the age of about 15, and have been with this community from my birth. You converted to it a couple decades ago but find it right to judge me, and say that my idea of Zoroastrian is a form of Shia Islam!

To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
From: bardissimo@gmail. com
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 14:37:41 +0200

Subject: [Ushta] Healing, angels and other superstitious nonsense

Dear Bahman

You wrote to Dino:

"You are absolutely entitled to believe and preach and talk about whatever you believe in. Calling your belief however, Mazdayasa is a misnomer! It is misleading, since Mazdayasna refers and has referred to an old age religion and tradition whether fairytale or otherwise; which is not what you are stating."

I believe that what Dino has presented is indeed what Mazdayasna is all about and AT LEAST as much Mazdayasna as any dying historical project is.


2010/6/20 Bahman Noruziaan

Now refer to the posting in which I called Dino not a Zoroastrian!

"And Bahman should not tell Dino that Dino is not a Zoroastrian. That is a preposterous statement!"


To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
From: bardissimo@gmail. com
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 20:50:15 +0200

Subject: [Ushta] Healing, angels and other superstitious nonsense

Mind is JUST brains and neurons and strictly material. Period!!!
To believe anything else is just to believe in fantasies and fairytales, the exact opposite of what Zarathushtra preached.
Craig Venter just invented artificial life that can reproduce itself. He used ONLY CHEMICALS and nothing else whatsoever. So everything is material, there is only one substance in the universe. Materia!!!
Which is what the Indo-Europeans always believed as they were always MONISTS. Both the early Zoroastrians (before the adevnt of Manicheism and Islam) and the Brahmanists in India were always MONISTS.
DUALISM (the belief that there is a spiritual substance separate from materia) is both unscientific, nonsensical and Abrahamic, and certainly not Zoroastrian.
And that's that.
And Bahman should not tell Dino that Dino is not a Zoroastrian. That is a preposterous statement! Especially coming from somebody whose idea of Zoroastrianism seems to be that Zoroastrianism is a form of Shia Islam.

2010/6/19 ardeshir farhmand


so this is the brilliant analysis of one of the self proclaimed promising minds/philosophes of switzerland; not only he dodges a number of rational questions, but simply states that things beyond our understanding do not exist, HOW BRILLIANT;

so, dino, ur idea of mazda is that mazda is the sum of the wise minds of human beings and restricted to humans only ?????
so, was there genius, creativity, vision and ingenuity before men?????
will there be one thereafter?? ????
also define mind????
is that just brain cells and neurons or more to consciousness than the material aspect of the brain and the nervous system?????
also is consciousness wholly material???? ???

since u state u are a scientist;
all the things that are beyond our scientific reach today are fiction????? ?
so, 100 years ago, if someone predicted our advances today that was fiction at the time, correct????? ?

the problem here on this list is; that people like alexander, dino and P.V are ALWAYS RIGHT, there is NO healthy debate but one sided, repetitive, amateur psuedo rationalism incapable of withstanding rational examination.


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