I used to be a member of the World Pantheist Society but dispproved of the way it was organised (it has no democratic organisation and is completely in the hands of its rather totalitarian founder) and also found its message lacking. Zoroastrainism is so much MORE than the new age-y type of Pantheism preached by the WPS from California. I prefer to refer to Zoroastrianism as "Pantheism-Plus". Concepts like Ahura Mazda and Asha do not exist within the Pantheism of the WPS. They have no ethics at all, which we indeed do.
But of course Zoroastrianism is a Pantheistic religion, to which we have also reached agreement to include PanENtheism since many Zoroastrians seem to want to keep this possibility open too. Many forms of Buddhism, Daoism and Hinduism are Pantheistic too (like Brahmanism).
2009/10/9 Special Kain
I agree considering the fact that panentheism states that God is not only within the forces and workings of nature, but also The Greater Force beyond the physical world as we know it, with pantheism subtracting such supernatural inclinations and equating God with the universe and all the stars within - with intelligence (Mazda) being its most adorable aspect.
However, revering and celebrating the universe doesn't necessarily mean that pantheists are going to love EVERYTHING. Pantheism shouldn't be confused with undifferentiated affirmation. The enjoyment of life is an ethical imperative indeed, but it does not allow for cruelty, humiliation or pollution. This is why ethics is no picnic! It's quite tough, since we have to justify why our great love of existence doesn't allow for anything that does exist in this world.
--- Bahman Noruziaan
Von: Bahman Noruziaan
Betreff: [Ushta] Pantheism vs. Zoroastrianism (1)
An: "Ushta Ushta"
Datum: Freitag, 9. Oktober 2009, 21:31
Since there have been several references to Pantheism in this mailing list, I browsed the website of World Pantheism at
http://www.pantheis m.net/manifest. htm and looked for, found and started reading their Belief Statement.
I presumed that, this is an authentic site. If not, please correct me before I continue with my future postings along this thread.
I will put my humble and admittedly not very deep and not very educated thoughts about this ideology/religion (if you like) in relationship with my understanding of Zoroastrianism and as a Zoroastrian layperson and not a scholar, in a few postings.
The Pantheists declare:
"1. We revere and celebrate the Universe as the totality of being, past, present and future. It is self-organizing, ever-evolving and inexhaustibly diverse. Its overwhelming power, beauty and fundamental mystery compel the deepest human reverence and wonder."
A Zoroastrian also reveres and celebrates the Universe. From a Zoroastrian point of view however, existence is not bound to what our senses and instruments of senses have detected so far. Existence is not limited to matter and energy that has been measured by our instruments, unless and until it is proven scientifically that this matter/energy has been existent for ever. In that case and then Universe has the same meaning as existence from a Zoroastrian point of view.
There is a vast source of existence from which the visible and measurable universe has sprung and is springing out. Universe of existence engulfs the Universe that our measurements have found so far. A Zoroastrian also, believes that Universe (existence) is self-organizing (organizer and organization are the same), ever-evolving and diverse. Universe is beautiful and mysterious. It is however, as a Zoroastrian realistically sees; painful and at times ugly! It has inherent destructive powers some of which are manifested in human beings destructive powers of lie, deceit, discrimination, murder, torture, harm and so on! Zoroastrianism traditionally has called this inherent ugly part of the observable existence (Universe) as Ahriman.
The Pantheists declare:
"2. All matter, energy, and life are an interconnected unity of which we are an inseparable part. We rejoice in our existence and seek to participate ever more deeply in this unity through knowledge, celebration, meditation, empathy, love, ethical action and art."
I see this statement in harmony of my Zoroastrian world view. I however, take the word meditation as the Gathic and Avestan as well as Persian word Sraosha (Soroush), the direct conduit of acquiring knowledge via connecting to the vast source of knowledge via what has been poetically referred to as heart.
The Pantheists declare:
"3. We are an integralpart of Nature, which we should cherish, revere and preserve in all itsmagnificent beauty and diversity. We should strive to live in harmony withNature locally and globally. We acknowledge the inherent value of all life,human and non-human, and strive to treat all living beings with compassion andrespect."
I see this statement in harmony with my Zoroastrian world view, considering the same point as I mentioned above that nature is not totally beautiful. It has a real ugly face too. A face that must be acknowledged confronted and dealt with. A Zoroastrian also strives to live in harmony with thelaws of Universe that happen to govern its ugly side too, and in order to usethe splendid, constructive and beautiful power of Existence (Universe) to tame its ugly and painful face and to make the world a better place, a more beautiful and harmless place for all life, a state called freshokereti in Zoroastrianism.
..... the rest I will write later.
Ushta you all