Dar-Be-Mehr

Dear Friends

I believe the best terms in contemporary English for a Dar-Be-Mehr is a meditation center or a community center. A building for social activities and contemplation, traditionally preferrably as much in white as possible with an atash behram at the center. This is truly beautiful and as Koroosh has pointed out it is not about holy buildings but rather about having a communal place for learning, socializing and meditation for Mazdayasni. The location itself is never sacred, as a matter of fact not even the fire ought to be sacred, that's a traditionalist idea but not historically relevant. The fire is merely a symbol, we worship or rather celebrate Ahura Maza and not a fire.

Ushta
Alexander/wouldn't mind a few Mazdayasna monasteries too, we need to have places where we can escape from today's world now and then...

2009/1/21 special_kain

You can talk about Protestants all day long, I don't have a problem
with that, dear Koorosh. But when I say something about Christian
fundamentalists, please don't act as if I made a breathtaking
generalization about Protestants. Don't put any words into my mouth
that I never, never said! So please read my postings carefully before
responding! I told a funny story about two of my former classmates and
went on to say a few things about Christian fundamentalists in
general. And that's all I did. I'm aware that fundamentalists are
usually the same, whether they're Christians or Muslims or anything else.
I don't mind which word should be chosen in the end: sanctuary,
temple, Dar-Be-Mehr. To see how words change their meaning over time
is really, really fascinating. So I'm perfectly fine with sanctuaries,
but if you're not for whatever reasons, that's also fine with me. Just
do as you like.

Ushta,
Dino

--- In Ushta@yahoogroups.com, Koollife wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Dino,
>
> I didn't even mention the word "Christians".., I said Protestants!!!
and the attitudes that you said can apply to every fanatical religious
group.., no matter what religion.., where ever religion is organized
or institutionalized you should expect tyranny, intolerance and
conflicts.., it is there that they make rules how to have sex, what to
eat or not to eat and so on...
>
> And about the word sanctuary..; we must not use this term in
Zoroastrianism at all.., or others like Temples, Shrines or such..; it
is important what terms we use in our belief... while there are other
terms to use.., monetary is appropriate even though we have a
Zoroastrian equivalent for it, "Dar-Be-Mehr" which means "Gateway to
LOVE".., this is one of the most beautiful words that we can use to
name our community places.., it is completely a non-religious place
only for gathernings and social purposes.., however, unfortunately the
traditionalists have turned it to a sanctuary and a place for worship
and rituals...
>
> Ushta
> Koorosh
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: special_kain

> To: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 12:28:59 PM
> Subject: [Ushta] Re: Zoroastrian sanctuary
>
>
> Dear Koorosh,
>
> I was talking about Christian fundamentalists, not Christians in
> general. I didn't say anything bad about modern and liberal Christians
> like my friends, but I did say something really rude about the
> attitude of Christian fundamentalists - the ones that kill
> abortionists and discriminate homosexuals. And I have a slightly
> different understanding of sanctuaries, in the sense of a safe
> community place that we can share with like-minded people for
> recreational purposes. And you should know by now that I'm not
> promoting the silly things you mention, such as worshipping stones. ;-)
> So my idea is close to what you're describing, sort of a
> university-meets- temple-meets- art studio-meets- meditation center.
> There's no worship included. That is to my taste!
>
> Ushta,
> Dino
>
> --- In Ushta@yahoogroups. com, Koollife wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Dino,
> >
> > Well.., the way that you interpret them collectively is absolutism
> as well.., let's not support them nor oppose.., but criticize
> them.., all I know is that if you opposed them 200 years ago they
> would burn you at the state.., but this is not happening anymore.., I
> know a lot of them, some of my friends are Protestants and they are
> good people too.., just like ur friends that you were talking about
> the other day!!! why.., because they are living in the modern world...
> and they have to comply with the modern ethics and civil laws... what
> you say is exaggeration. ., it may apply to their missionaries but not
> every human being who is a Protestant!! !
> >
> > And Dino... NO WAY we need sanctuary, NOT for a hundred years we
> need HOLY temples!!! This will corrupt our movement
> altogether.. , don't tell me that you wanna compete with the
> Traditionalists in making Temples!!!
> >
> > if we start making stone buildings sacred, we will go back to our
> dark days... there is no sacred OBJECT in Zoroastrianism. ., No
> Zoroastrian Mecca, Western Wall, or Church... nothing is HOLY in our
> philosophy.. , if you make things holy then you deprive Vohumana from
> criticizing or questioning it.., you can't criticize Quran, Bible,
> Torah, Zabur.., because they are sacred and holy.., you can't listen
> to music in a Mosque.., can't touch Quran before washing your
> body.., can't question the verses of Bible.., why.., because they
> are Holy...
> >
> > and of course monasteries have a totally different meaning, because
> they are community places not places for blind worship and brain
> washing people...
> >
> > But for us.., the whole life is sacred.., the Laws of Asha are
> sacred.., and our only Temple is our Brains and nothing else... so if
> we want to go and perform the greatest worships of all.., we go to our
> minds and put them together.., and there is no better place to achieve
> that than in Academic and Scholastic places. ., we can have Zoroastrian
> Universities. ., and Educational Centres.., and we will have... it's
> only matter of time...
> >
> > Ushta
> > Koorosh
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Special Kain
> > To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 11:38:03 PM
> > Subject: [Ushta] Zoroastrian sanctuary
> >
> >
> > Dear Koorosh,
> >
> > According to my experience those Christian fundamentalist are
> neither ethical nor harmless. They're concerned with absolutely good
> (Jesus) versus absolutely evil (Satan .. or just anybody that is
> somewhat different). And that's moral absolutism. They're really into
> missionary work and always trying to persuade you to join their cause,
> otherwise you would go straight down to hell and perish. And that's a
> really disgusting attitude.
> > Maybe we don't need Zoroastrian universities, but we need
> Zoroastrian monasteries and resorts for recreational purposes.
> Sanctuaries are important.
> >
> > Ushta,
> > Dino
> >
> > --- Koollife schrieb am Di, 20.1.2009:
> >
> > Von: Koollife
> > Betreff: Re: AW: [Ushta] Re: Anti-conversion in Zoroastrianism
> > An: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
> > Datum: Dienstag, 20. Januar 2009, 4:12
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear Dino,
> >
> > Fundamental Christians.. ; I actually have a lot of fun with them in
> chatting.., they are the funniest ones.., and relatively harmless cz
> they pretend they are tolerant to criticisms.. , they believe that the
> World is 12'000 years old.., and they really mean it, so... you get
> the rest of it... ;-)
> >
> > logic has no room in their skull... and they are pretty much more
> active than other Christians in converting people.., but it doesn't
> really concern me cz as long as they have those singing sessions,
> Gospel choirs, counseling services and charity organizations. ., they
> mean no harm.., no matter what BS they are spreading.., however they
> have the potential to be destructive too.., as the history has
> proven... but not now.., cz they've become so much ethical these
days...
> >
> > So while they are spreading their seeds.., we shall do it our own
> way.., by developing Academic Centres; I don't think that we have any
> serious Zoroastrian university, college or school any where in the
> world.., except those made up ones in Gujarat that Parviz mentioned
> the other day... which their credibility is arguable... and I know
> this needs a lot of money and time.., but we gave to develop the idea
> first to then achieve the goal... and I reckon that our communication
> is of crucial importance in this pace...
> >
> > Ushta
> > Koorosh
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Special Kain
> > To: Ushta@yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 12:07:32 PM
> > Subject: AW: [Ushta] Re: Anti-conversion in Zoroastrianism
> >
> >
> > Dear Koorosh,
> >
> > Yes, it appeared a few days ago, but Yahoo! is playing its own game.
> ;-))
> > I've never been a fan of self-righteous missionary work. At high
> school two of my classmates were members of a Christian fundamentalist
> sect, and they prayed for my soul's salvation, because I was reading
> Nietzsche, LaVey's"Satanic Bible" and other anti-Christian literature
> at the time (including playing keyboards in an embarrassing Black
> Metal band - only God knows why). ;-)
> > They decorated the school building with flyers, saying that god's
> spirit was better than Goethe's "Faust" - 'faust' means 'fist' in
> German. Our German teachers didn't like that one, so they made their
> own flyers. Those classmates and one other jerk were part of a
> so-called 'Bible group' and heavily promoted New Testament Christian
> fundamentalism. But they definitely overdid it, so we were allowed to
> form our school's so-called 'Playgroup' (and I don't know it that
> makes much sense in English). So we handed out flyers, encouraging
> people to play fun games.
> > Whether we're encouraged to persuade people to join in the fun, I
> wouldn't do it. I guess there are better ways to promote the benefits
> of Zoroastrianism, such as supporting scientific research, helping
> your friends to develop a constructive mentality, discussing
> philosophical issues, encouraging them to think critically etc.
> >
> > Ushta,
> > Dino
> >
> >
> > --- Koollife schrieb am Di, 20.1.2009:
> >
> > Von: Koollife
> > Betreff: [Ushta] Re: Anti-conversion in Zoroastrianism
> > An: ushta@yahoogroups. com
> > Datum: Dienstag, 20. Januar 2009, 1:52
> >
> >
> > I think this hadn't appeared before so I post it again..;
> >
> >
> > Dear Dino and Friends,
> >
> > We surely don't have to force or beg people to be Zoroastrians. .. In
> > regards to expanding the Mazdayasna our position is clear;
> >
> > We are all living our daily lives and having our rise and falls just
> > like every other human being.., what we have in particular is that we
> > are living in the path of Asha and we are trying to apply the three
> > principles of Good Thought, Good Words and Good Deeds in every moment
> > of our lives as best as we can... At the same time we can introduce
> > the massage of Zarathushtra. .; by our own Ethics and through raising
> > awareness.., without giving up our daily lives...
> >
> > And about having Missionaries;
> > Definitely not similar to what Mormons or Protestants or such have..,
> > they are dedicating their whole life to promoting something that they
> > may not even have the slightest understanding about it.., and they
> > may be doing it for money, status, power or just as a religious
> > compulsion.. .
> >
> > Instead, we can have an Academic approach towards it... we can
> > establish Universities, Zoroastrian Educational Centres.., or Gathic
> > Schools... we develop Science, Medicine, Mathematics and Literature,
> > on the basis of the Zarathushtra' s Philosophy.. , all for the sake of
> > the betterment of the World.., and there is no greater Joy than this
> > for us...
> >
> > Ushta
> > Koorosh
> >
> >
> > --- In Ushta@yahoogroups. com, "special_kain"
wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Koorosh,
> > >
> > > Don't forget to mention all the privileged anti-conversion
> > > Zoroastrians who are afraid of losing their power and social status
> > > and those Zoroastrians who don't want their Zoroastrian identity to
> > be turned into an objectified and fancy commodity! :-)
> > >
> > I guess that we all agree on the anti-Gathic nature of the
> > > anti-conversion agenda. We're not persuading people to join us,
> > since there's no missionary work to be done. People are free to
> choose
> > > whichever religion suits them best, and that's a perfectly
> > Zoroastrian thing to do. It's being true to yourself,
> constructive reasoning and
> > > freedom of choice combined, whether those anti-conversion
> > Zoroastrians
> > > like it or not. Anyway, we can do better!
> > > Zoroastrianism is exactly the stimulating and encouraging religion I
> > > was looking for (and that Nietzsche was talking about), so if they
> > > don't want to accept me as one of them, do I really have to
care? No,
> > > because that's their own choice and none of my business.
> > >
> > > Ushta,
> > > Dino