Cause and effect, the big bang and time

Loop quantum gravity theory, which is now taking over from superstring theory as the dominant field of physics and cosmology, actually posits that The Big Bang was not the beginning of The Universe at all but rather just the beginning of OUR particular universe (or part of The Universe). As a matter of fact, the strongest case for superstring theory, so called M-Theory does exactly the same thing. So while it is correct that every effect needs a cause in our current universe as it is now, in an eternal universe, or rather in a universe WITHOUT TIME, there is not necessarily any need for a cause to an effect. The whole process of cause-effect is time-dependent. And we might be debating something here that is redundant in itself. Why not wait and see what science finds out? And then can prove???
Ushta
Alexander

2009/1/27 ztheist


Ushta Dino

I respectfully beg to differ from your view point. Everything that has
been created has a cause. In the Gathas there is a Creator, and in
scientific theory the Big Bang is either the tool or the cause of
Creation.

Im my opinion and limited experience and understanding, I see no
evidence in human experience for anything birthing itself. Perhaps I
am wrong but I must form my beliefs on what seems to have some
evidence of some kind , and is non-contradictory and thus logically
possible. This makes it valid and validity, while not the same as
truth, does make something that is possible into something more
probable than otherwise.

Do you have any kind of evidence for anything birthing itself? I think
that if I were to argue the Atheistic position I would try to stay on
the universe is eternal and has always existed position. Of course
that can create problems with the Big Bang , which can perhaps be side
stepped by positing that the Uni existed , albeit , in a different
form prior to the B.B.

As to your idea of us being god like beings:In what frame of reference
are we to discuss it? From a speculative phylosophical one or from the
Gathas? From the Gathas, it seems to me, that we have the potential to
become god like but we cannot unless we get rid of our wrongfulness.

From the other perspective it could be possible. The evidence I see in
the world as far as man's inhumanity, seems to agree with the Gathic
view though. So help me , because so far, I would need More evidence
to accept your two positions as stated.

Ushta te
Ron


--- In Ushta@yahoogroups.com, "special_kain" wrote:
>
> Dear Ron,
>
> It's the universe that is giving birth to itself, just like the
> creator creating himself as creation. :-)
> Religiously speaking, the creator (such as a writer), the act of
> creating (writing a book or a pop song) and that which is being
> created (book and/or song) are not separate phenomena. In this
> particular case they're one and the same. All we have is a creative
> process with no beginning and no end. If anything, god is creativity,
> and vice versa. And that's why we're godlike beings, because we're not
> only part of this limitlessly creative process, but because we can
> (are are obliged to) actively take part and contribute to the creation
> of the world.
>
> Ushta,
> Dino