måndag 2 november 2009

Mehran's super-conscious father figure and Dewey's sociological take on The Mind

Dear Mehran

Dino's very intelligent point is that MIND can not exist as a SOLITARY unit.
In other words: God can not be intelligent unless God has other gods to be intelligent with first.
This is how consciousness comes into existence.
So Dino is merely pointing out another flaw in your logic. You should listen carefully to what he has to say.
Again, I don't see your creator as very intelligent. Ahura Mazda creates all the time, without planning in advance, like a true artist and not as as an architect. This is obvious when you study how things actually work (science).


2009/11/2 MoobedyAr Mehran Gheibi

Dear Dino
Why you jump the matter so easily? Are there wisdom, consciousness, intelligence or not?
Are they spiritual or material? If the are spiritual well my view point would be proved and if they are material, well which atomic, sub-atomic, quantum, process does have such attirbutes?
Is any brick intelligent enough to recognize its best place or a wise constructor upon a paln does make a house?

Nik-o shAd bAshid
KhodA negahdAr,
MoobedyAr MehrAn Gheibi.

--- On Sun, 11/1/09, Special Kain wrote:

From: Special Kain
Subject: [Ushta] Mehran's super-conscious father figure and Dewey's sociological take on The Mind
To: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 1, 2009, 2:50 PM

(1) Don't confuse consciousness with The Almighty Creator as planner and architect. What you ceaselessly want to prove is that anything in our universe - from dark matter to bees and their hives - presupposes a conscious being as managing and creative director.

But the mind is something different altogether: The mind arises from collective human activity and, specifically, the development of socially shared meanings that govern this activity. The mind as an emerging aspect of cooperative activity is mediated by linguistic communication (see John Dewey). You can't have subjectivity without intersubjectivity. And this leads to the expansion of meaning as an ethical obligation: the enrichment of the conscious individual's apprecation of their circumstances within human culture and the world-at-large, the fact that satisfaction and achievement can be realized only within the context of social habits and institutions that promote it. So ideals and values must be evaluated with respect to their social consequences, either as inhibitors or as valuable instruments for social progress.

(2) Another thing you're talking about is parapsychological research as the means to discover and repeatedly test the spiritual (or spooky) nature of existence. Parapsychology hasn't discovered your dear Almighty Creator. Most beliefs - whether Christian monotheism or New Age esotericism - have been falsified, not only by parapsychology, but also by the established natural and social sciences.

In other words, there's no Almighty Creator sitting above the clouds and outside of his or her beautiful (and sometimes disturbing) creation. Creation as a process is the only process there is. Still no engineer required, since the subject-object- relationship is nothing but grammar. And it's language itself which creates the subject! Before communication there were no premordial subjects thinking about what to do next and how to compose larger entities.

Ushta, Dino

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