Materia, Energy, Time, and Nature Part 2

I believe we are discussing very different things, Parviz! You can measure scientifically as much as you like but the things you measure will still be objects of your fantasy. There are no objects in reality. Fantasy is what our perception needs to MAKE SENSE of the chaos that is reality. Immanuel Kant called these fantasies PHENOMENA in opposition to the NOUMENA we can never experience as "they really are". But of course there are differences in QUALITY between fantasies. Some fantasies run well with science (seem trustworthy and even likely), others can be dismissed right away for being proven ouright wrong and impossible by science. Which explains why I for example loathe homeopathy with a vengeance. Ushta Alexander 2012/7/13 Parviz Varjavand Instead of REALITY versus FANTASY, I would say, "Measurable by Science" and " Not measurable by Science". "Giti" and "Minoo", "Physical" and "Mental". Most Giti or Physical things are "Science Measurable" and most things of the Minoo (Mind Realm) are not so perfectly measurable by Science. I like this simple division of Muzdayucna. My two cents worth, I stand to be corrected! Purviz --- On Wed, 7/11/12, Alexander Bard wrote: From: Alexander Bard Subject: [Ushta] Materia, Energy, Time, and Nature To: Ushta@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, July 11, 2012, 4:04 AM Let me just add that the idea that "materia and energy" are either eternal or created are both incorrect. Materia and energy are INTERTWINED with time in physics. So there can not be any time before materia and energy, neither can we say that materia ane energy are eternal as if there was some kind of meta-time, because there is no such thing. And if the supernatural does exist, it is natural. There is no point in talking of something being supernatural. If somehting does exist IT IS PART OF NATURE, part of Ahura. So just skip all talk of the supernatural. What we should discuss is instead reality versus fantasy, Ushta Alexander 2012/7/9 Special Kain Dear Kenneth Zoroastrianism is indeed an ethical rather than moralistic religion: we become the choices we make. There is nothing wrong with monotheism as such, as it is compatible with monism: there is one world, and one world only, which we hold sacred (= Pantheism). Ahura (Being) and Mazda (Mind) are sacred when combined. But you will also find many Zoroastrians who believe that Ahura Mazda is the one supreme being that once created the universe (= Abrahamitism). Ushta, Dino