tisdag 9 februari 2010

The Ongoing Process (was: The Enchanting Immortals)

While Greek thught was divided between process philosophers like Heraclitus and dualists like Plato, they got their inspiration from either Iranian thinking (such as Heraclitus) or Egyptian thinking (such as Plato). This is important when we look the Greek term logos which therefore can mean both "establishment of movement" and "establishment of fact". In the Bible, it is clearly the Platinist view which dominates, this is for example obvious in the famous first chapter of The Gospel of John. But here it is important that we stress that Zarathushtra was a process philosopher (which goes for Iranian and also Indian thinking in general) and that when HE and his contemporaires speak of "word" they do so precisely in the meaning that Kamran enlightens us with. So here I would agree that both Dino and Kamran are 100%. And Dino is right to stress that a consequence of process philosophy is that it is by nature devoid of morality (morality requires a non-changing existence since valuations and their base are non-changing) but instead focuses on ETHICS as the basis for values and valuations. We could therefore not arrive further from the Abrahamic religions and Platonism than this. There is nothing to heal in Zoroastrianism, no sins to forgive, no links to ressurect. Instread there are endless possibilities for US as Mazdayasni to choose to materialize. We give meaning to existence as we choose to give meaning to existence, meaning is not external to us, arriving to us as a doomed fact (the way it does in Abrahamic Re-Ligions). Strictly speaking, Mazdayasna is therefore not a Re-Ligion, it is a Mazda-Yasna (a Philo-Sophia).

2010/2/9 Kamran Jamshidi

Dear "hamporses" (the meaning comes later in this text!)

Let us now have a little "word" play which could be interesting. It is for me anyway.

Lets take the word " ruvishni/ growth/progress" mentioned by Ardeshir, as it is one of the main words/concepts of our philosophy/world view.

{note: It is really a challenge to put a vast concept into short sentences/text and both could explain what you want to say and yet not become tiresome/boring!!}

So let me put it this way:

1- First let us look at the word "word" itself!

In Persian/Farsi "word" means vâzh(e) = vâch(e) = wax (to grow) = växa (= wax in Swedish) , and of course many other forms/variations which if needed could be taken them into account also later.

So a word is something that grows/varies/take different forms. It is not "absolute". Everyone may see/choose some of its forms! So we all grow with words. we seek their meanings together. We are doing "ham-porsi" (to seek/search together. It does not mean to ask each other but ask/search with each other!)

this is one of the meanings/interpretations of "ruvishni" = "ravân" = "urvân" (spirit!?) . It is why urvar=plant, and it is why "Ameretât" symbolizes "plants"=growth.

one other interesting form of "word" = vakhsh= rakhsh=rakhs=raghs (to dance!) . The "creation/generation=growth" is a cosmic dance! (sounds familiar?)

Let us stop here and get reactions/reflections. For example what "word" means in other related languages.
"Ord" in Swedish Alex?


2010/2/9 Special Kain

Dear Ardeshir

This perfectly demonstrates - once again! - that Zarathushtra was concerned with The Ongoing Process (as a metaphysical concept) rather than The Static Being. Zarathushtra was the first process philosopher in a long line with Heraclitus, Charles Darwin, Friedrich Nietzsche, Alfred N. Whitehead, Gilles Deleuze and the pragmatists and existentialists. When many philosophers and thinkers would see The Ongoing Process as a good reason to establish a sense of alienation, Zarathushtra was one of the thinkers that actually would praise this concept.

My two cents,

--- ardeshir farhmand schrieb am Mo, 8.2.2010:

Von: ardeshir farhmand
Betreff: Re: [Ushta] The enchanting immortals
An: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
CC: kamran.jamshidi@gmail.com
Datum: Montag, 8. Februar 2010, 23:12

Dear Alexander, Parviz and Mobed Kamran,

on haurvatat and ameretat or "weal " and "imperishablity/ indestructabilit y"
the ancient exegesis translates them respectively as hamishak ruvishni; forever growth/progress- ---and amrag ruvishnish: etrenal/deathless growth/progress;

just wanted to add that to our ancient sages the duo simply represented the idea of "weal/wellbeing and eternal/imperish able progress and growth.
by the way the greek "amborsia" seem to be very close!!!
just another thought


On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Kamran Jamshidi wrote:

And just another thought:
Haurvatât ameretât are almost always together.
Another simple and yet mundane interpretation could be:
ever/long-lasting good/happy life!

As some of you use to say: my 2 cents.

Shâd zi
Kamran Jamshidi

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