The only reason why PITY exists is because most people are so afraid of the conflicts and other unpleasantries they may encounter from others if they actually tell the truth. Pity is therefore probably the lowest form of lying, the form of lying you get from people who refuse to see the world for what it is and only seek minimum resistance (and maximum likeability) in their entire behavior. These are the people who show pity. You can never trust them.
Ushta
Alexander
2011/9/8 Special Kain
Yes, this is where Zarathushtra, Nietzsche and Spinoza agree (even though I'm not a Spinozist and I strongly disagree with Spinoza's determinism, because I see the universe as probablistic in nature). And this is also where Nietzsche and Epictetus agree that PITY is unacceptable.
Ushta,
Dino
Von: Alexander Bard
An: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: 18:25 Donnerstag, 8.September 2011
Betreff: [Ushta] The issue of suffering
I completely agree.
Zoroastrianism is also THE ONLY RELIGION or philosophical system which refuses to add meaning to suffering. Suffering is just bad (druj) and something we should fight. But this fight IN ITSELF does not have any meaning other than that the success of relieving suffering is its own reward. So both Zarathushtra and Nietzsche were right and here stress an important difference between Zoroastrian thinking and the philosophies of the east (where suffering is a learning experience, something it is not) and the religions of the deserts (which all claim that suffering is caused by sin and disobedience against God).
Ushta
Alexander
2011/9/8 Special Kain
Dear brothers and sisters
As already discussed, Friedrich Nietzsche was philosophically interested in how different cultures and religions teach their members and followers how to cope with random suffering. Cultures and religions provide for ready-made explanations and interpretations that help people cope with random suffering: God walks in mysterious ways, and all your pain and misery will pay off in the future; those who suffer will be rewarded, and those who enjoy themselves will fall (we envy those who seem to be better off); there will be salvation and forgiveness; success requires hardship (see Max Weber's studies on the Protestant work ethic), etc.
Simply put, as long as we are able to explain and GIVE MEANING to our pain, this will ease the pain. But once our explanations fail, we are exposed to suffering in its full CONTINGENCY. As long as we see our pain as MEANINGFUL, we are able to cope with it. As soon as we realise that it doesn't actually make any sense (or any more sense than something else), we face the TRUTH OF NIHILISM. Suffering itself isn't that which scares us. It is the fact that suffering has NO POSITIVE SUBSTANCE and NO INTRINSIC VALUE.
So how did Zarathushtra address the issue of suffering? His take on suffering was brutally and uncharmingly existentialist: he simply states that there is random suffering and that it has no intrinsic value. In other words, it is pointless to suffer. He doesn't even think of suffering as a prerequisite for excellence and bliss. What he stressed is our ATTITUDE TOWARDS EXISTENCE and the choices we make when faced with suffering. How do we choose to react to this phenomenon? How do we choose to JUDGE it? And what will this choice make with us? Where am I, and who will I become once I've made my choice? Do I choose nihilism or fatalism or something more constructive and encouraging? How do I make us of it?
Ushta,
Dino
Svara
Alexander Bard till Ushta
visa information 13:06 (0 minuter sedan)
I agree!
The only reason why PITY exists is because most people are so afraid of the conflicts and other unpleasantries they may encounter from others if they actually tell the truth. Pity is therefore probably the lowest form of lying, the form of lying you get from people who refuse to see the world for what it is and only seek minimum resistance (and maximum likeability) in their entire behavior. These are the people who show pity. You can never trust them.
Ushta
Alexander
2011/9/8 Special Kain
Yes, this is where Zarathushtra, Nietzsche and Spinoza agree (even though I'm not a Spinozist and I strongly disagree with Spinoza's determinism, because I see the universe as probablistic in nature). And this is also where Nietzsche and Epictetus agree that PITY is unacceptable.
Ushta,
Dino
Von: Alexander Bard
An: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Gesendet: 18:25 Donnerstag, 8.September 2011
Betreff: [Ushta] The issue of suffering
I completely agree.
Zoroastrianism is also THE ONLY RELIGION or philosophical system which refuses to add meaning to suffering. Suffering is just bad (druj) and something we should fight. But this fight IN ITSELF does not have any meaning other than that the success of relieving suffering is its own reward. So both Zarathushtra and Nietzsche were right and here stress an important difference between Zoroastrian thinking and the philosophies of the east (where suffering is a learning experience, something it is not) and the religions of the deserts (which all claim that suffering is caused by sin and disobedience against God).
Ushta
Alexander
2011/9/8 Special Kain
Dear brothers and sisters
As already discussed, Friedrich Nietzsche was philosophically interested in how different cultures and religions teach their members and followers how to cope with random suffering. Cultures and religions provide for ready-made explanations and interpretations that help people cope with random suffering: God walks in mysterious ways, and all your pain and misery will pay off in the future; those who suffer will be rewarded, and those who enjoy themselves will fall (we envy those who seem to be better off); there will be salvation and forgiveness; success requires hardship (see Max Weber's studies on the Protestant work ethic), etc.
Simply put, as long as we are able to explain and GIVE MEANING to our pain, this will ease the pain. But once our explanations fail, we are exposed to suffering in its full CONTINGENCY. As long as we see our pain as MEANINGFUL, we are able to cope with it. As soon as we realise that it doesn't actually make any sense (or any more sense than something else), we face the TRUTH OF NIHILISM. Suffering itself isn't that which scares us. It is the fact that suffering has NO POSITIVE SUBSTANCE and NO INTRINSIC VALUE.
So how did Zarathushtra address the issue of suffering? His take on suffering was brutally and uncharmingly existentialist: he simply states that there is random suffering and that it has no intrinsic value. In other words, it is pointless to suffer. He doesn't even think of suffering as a prerequisite for excellence and bliss. What he stressed is our ATTITUDE TOWARDS EXISTENCE and the choices we make when faced with suffering. How do we choose to react to this phenomenon? How do we choose to JUDGE it? And what will this choice make with us? Where am I, and who will I become once I've made my choice? Do I choose nihilism or fatalism or something more constructive and encouraging? How do I make us of it?
Ushta,
Dino
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