torsdag 29 april 2010

Vegeterianism and Zoroastrian ethics

And I would like to add to Rory's excellent posting that what is "natural" or not is totally irrelevant to us as Zoroastrians. Zoroastrian ethics is based on existentialism: We are what we think, what we say and how we act. We IDENTIFY with all those things. But it is not the other way round: Nature does not force us to act in any particular way. We do not have to behave like apes seem to behave just because we are related to them. We should find our own way to exist and cherish exactly that. This is what the Mazdayasna way is all about. If vegetarianism is healthy and saves the planet, then it should be encouraged. But nature does not tell me whether I enjoy a lamb curry or not. I know that myself, from my own very natural taste buds, thank you very much! So thereby by my own nature! And the same thing goes with who I go to bed with etc. Nature as a guide for ethics is just banal moralism and does not belong on a Mazdayasni agenda. Sometimes going against nature (as in not killing people because I happen to hate them for a moment) is actually the ethucally correct thing to do. So let's avoid the N-word in our ethical discussions. Vegetarianism is such a good cause anyway it does not need to be defended from that angle.
Ushta
Alexander

2010/4/29 Rory

Hmmmmm....

Human beings are NOT "by nature herbivorous, just like their cousins, apes and monkeys" as Dr jafarey puts it. It is a well known fact that the reason we were able to develop these big brains of ours is because we were able to eat large amounts of protein which came from hunting. Early man were hunter-gatherers not vegetarians! ALL of the most ancient tribal societies still in existence such as the Biaka, the Twa, the San hunt and consume large amounts of meat. The Baka for example, although they live in one of the most species diverse rain forests on earth eat a wide variety of animals, fruits and nuts but the leaves of only one tree. Man is by nature omnivorous, and so are most of our closer ape relatives such as chimps. The only members of the diverse Hominidae family in Africa that are exceptions to the rule are Gorillas and Geladas. However we do need to TRANSFORM ourselves to become more herbivorous because of our developing situation. This happens in nature, a good example is Side-Striped Jackals in Southern Africa. In areas where they compete with Black-Backed Jackals over 70% of their diet is vegetable matter, for example fallen fruits whereas in areas where their is less competition then carrion and kills make up the majority of their diets. If man is going to change then somehow we need to change the instincts of our species or adapt our food to fool ourselves and make meat MORE EXPENSIVE and keep it something special. 1st world countries have reached a ceiling. The growing danger is developing nations. In the third world the first thing you do when you can afford it is buy meat or fish to eat and with growing populations and more money there is going to be more and more pressure on the environment. Telling these people not to eat meat when they can do so "just don't work". Most importantly alternative sources of protein such as Soya have to be improved encouraged among these populations in order to reduce the need for meat. Telling them to become vegetarians is as likely to succeed as offering a yoghurt to a leopard. It's nice that a few people around the world become vegetarians but to have a real impact something more needs to be done.

In a nutshell, vegetarianism is NOT natural but we do need to evolve if we are going to save our environment.

Ushta,

Rory

P.S.Regarding Boars. They are not found in Africa outside of Egypt and certainly not is South Africa (although Boers are but I doubt they would be please to be called pigs-although right now there is a fellow called Julius Malema who would probably agree wholeheartedly!!!)). However I agree 100% removing carnivores upsets the equilibrium. Biodiversity is critical.

--- In Ushta@yahoogroups.com, Parviz Varjavand wrote:
>
> Dear Ostad Jafarey,
> Â
> I like to keep the Nabors, but it is hard to keep the old Z. names of the days in mind with all else that one needs to do in a day. So by remembering that Monday is the Moon day, I just do not eat meat on Mondays. I do love and cherish each of the names of the Zartoshti days, but to make life easier for those who come in contact with us, can we tie each of the seven days of the week to an Amshaspand's name, like Monday to Vohu Mana, the Moon, Ram, and Gawush?Â
> Â
> It will also make teaching children about the concepts behind each name a lot easier too. Children love routines and a weekly schedule and this will help them keep that. I know many will say that "what is wrong with teaching them to observe the 30 day calendar". But when we make a road too hard, many will stop traveling it (like telling the parents, "teach them the Din Dabireh script, teach them Persian, teach them Shahnameh, teach them this, teach them that", the end result becomes that both parents and children give up all-together and go play video games).
> Â
> Ushta te,
> Parviz Varjavand
> --- On Mon, 4/26/10, Jafarey@... wrote:
>
>
> From: Jafarey@...


> Subject: Re: [zoroastrians] Re: Food Inc and Vegeterianism in Zarathushti faith
> To: zoroastrians@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, April 26, 2010, 5:15 PM
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
> Dear Capt. Daroowalla,
> Â
> Ushta!
> Â

> I am sorry to give a short reply because of my religious and cultural engagements. The life on our good earth has been created by Vohu Manah and Asha. It is all good. The herbivorous and the carnivorous animals are living side by side and keeping the environment as natural as possible. Take away the carnivorous and the whole earth will stink of petrified dead bodies. The carnivorous help the ailing animals by a quick death and not a long suffering. This has been proven. Years back, the authorities in South Africa killed the preying carnivorous and the result was the increase of boars that made life difficult for others. The death of vultures has brought the increase of many noxious animals. The nature knows how to proceed. The creation on the earth could not be without the environmental law of Asha for the living. It is Evolution under Asha that has created the two.
> Â

> Human beings are by nature herbivorous, just like their cousins, apes and monkeys. Circumstances have turned them into carnivorous, and today we realize that becoming "vegetarian, " we are helping our selves and the environment.
> Â

> And when, we comprehend the Gathas, we understand that we should be progressively as natural as possible to make the living world "fereshotemem -- most fresh."
> Â
> Ushta, Ali A. Jafarey

11 kommentarer:

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裕以 sa...

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Xu sa...

"It is a well known fact that the reason we were able to develop these big brains of ours is because we were able to eat large amounts of protein which came from hunting."

This may be a 'wellknown' fact but as im sure you know so-called historical facts of modern times are generally made up to fit into economical interests and propaganda of the current system rather than being a product of searching for truthfulness and accuracy, rarely are they based on solid evidence, especially so here.

Certainly we can make up ideas about the world to fit into our current paradigms and this may seem truthful until the moment we choose to look at it from a different perspective.

A simple study of human anatomy reveals that although man indeed has consumed animal products for quite some time, essentially the fundamental structure is still the same, which is that of a frugivore, not a herbivore. Our senses reveals this too when we encounter food in their natural/unprocessed state.

This is just my truth of course.

Xu sa...

By the way, in reference to your article in aftonbladet on the topics of druguse, I would just want to make a comment or two (this may not be the proper place but im not sure where else I could write the message).

Firstly I am too of the opionion that everyone should have the right to do whatever they feel contributes to life, whether I agree with it or not.

but I would like to stress the relevance of being aware of the cause and effect of actions and of being ready to take personal responsibility for personal decisions.

In this particular matter for example I would invite you to study the connection between so-called recreational drugs and the "spread" of what has come to be called "AIDS" - the western version of it.

And by researching the subject im not refering to mainstream opinion or pseudo-scientifical claims made into truth by the medical science-field ruled with a fist of iron by huge financial interests of big pharma, but to investigate the views of the few courageous dissidents who still stands strong on this issue.

That is the claim that Aids is NOT causes by a "virus" and that it is not contagious, but rather is a consequense of a toxiological and enervated condition of the body, brought by different factors depending on the part of the world of where the diagnose is set.

Basically there are two different diagnoses, the african where the symptoms is caused by the common symptoms of starvation and malnutrition and the western version where the symptoms commonly associated with "aids" is caused by the use of recreational drugs and immunosuppressive drugs in general (especially the so-called disease-modifying drugs used to "treat" patients who come down with a positive HIV-test).

I invite you to look into the papers and research of Peter Duesberg (If you haven't already done that) and to read through sites like aliveandwell.org aswell as read the book "The Great AIDS hoax" by T.C Fry.

I know you are a truthseeker and a lover of freedom of speech, but while many things can still be said in these parts of the world there are some holy cows that are absolutetly forbidden to even discuss or to divert from what it considered absolute facts, often stated by repeated by people who are heavily biased financially, or just simply programmed to not think freely and openly about anything or some things.

It's a very unfortunate climate that is the reality of the hiv/aids-hypothesis area. the true matters can't simply be allowed to even be discussed or questioned, too much money and reason for powercontrol invested into certain things.

however I do not on the other hand claim my held belief as absolute either, what im after is what is the most rational, sensible logical explaination behind the fundamental structures of the reality that man percieves as truth.

And I dislike with a passion when scientifical propaganda is turned into an absolute and being used as 'well known', 'common knowledge' when in reality it's so filled with flaws and holes in logic that it isn't even funny.

Thanks

Best wishes
Xu

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