onsdag 27 maj 2009

Zoroastrianism and Zurvanism

Correct! The translation "the first beginning" is clearly sloppy. It's tautological. "First" and "beginning" are synonyms. But Iris is an excellent reader to have found this passage and realised its contradiction. However, this translation does not indicate anything about Zoroastrian beliefs. More important is to stress - as Iris correclty has observed - that the concept of Zurvan already among early Zoroastrians shows that they were fully aware of the importance of time and that an existence outside of time was both feasible and possibly necessary to contemplate. Those who even went off to worship time as the true divinity were called Zurvanites (Zurvanism). Although many of us (including Parviz and myself) are very inspired by Zurvanism, it has historically not survived as its own faith.

2009/5/27 Special Kain

Dear Iris,

Translations always carry the translator's bias. That's why it is so important to consult different translations of the Gathas and, after all, discuss them with different Zoroastrians. And since it is a compilation of poems, we shouldn't read the Gathas literally. So it makes more sense to catch the SPIRIT expressed in the Gathas, rather than pondering on every single word.


--- irisfilpot schrieb am Mi, 27.5.2009:

Von: irisfilpot
Betreff: [Ushta] Re: Mazda Carpenter, Me Chair! - or not?
An: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Datum: Mittwoch, 27. Mai 2009, 5:20


yasna 31 7 "He who in the first beginning... ." then 31-11"....Thou didst first create us having bodies and spiritual..

This seems to indicate to me that there are many beginnings ( at least more than one) and it seems to me that it indicates that creation wasn't all at once. Or isn't all at once. It is seems open to a possibilty that the "creator" was already there before the "first beginning.' (He used his intelligence to first create.)
Taking the Gathas by themselves, I am seeing a range of possibilities as to meaning.

>>And in Zoroastrian history, the focus on "Zurvan" s unique. The idea that time created everything, in other words, that the current world came into existence with the existence of time.<<

Interesting. I haven't read anything about Zurvan yet. The idea that "time created everything". Yes, that seems to be pointing to "It You" sort of thinking. When someone is in that timelessness there is no you or I or it or separations. There isn't birth or death so it is essentially immortality "Time created every thing." Intellect, thought in words, is very time conscious and dependant on time. Our identified selves are dependant on time. Very good description of what isn't being in timelessness.

--- In Ushta@yahoogroups. com, Alexander Bard wrote:
> Where does the Gathas indicate this? Could you provide an example?
> Ushta
> Alexander
> 2009/5/26 irisfilpot
> >
> > The Gathas seem to indicate multiple creations.

2 kommentarer:

liebera sa...

What are scientists Children of the knowledge Primal seed of cosmical machine Schemes and terms from sky laboratories Investigation‘s brought by Creator‘s wit
Physical aspect and lace of metaphysic
Supreme touch urges to create
Science wit knows sense of moving
But Divine can’t be proved by theme

Dear Alex, here is a trifle example my creation and tribute to VACUUM. I’m an author of great amount of poems that are close to your ideas, especially to NETOCRACY. And I want you to be acquainted with them. Please, give me your i-mail, where I can send you in privacy (not for all other net users) I’m real fabric of different ideas and thoughts. It’s very important for me!!! I’m very responsive person! Send your answer on ‘prototype2004@gmail.com”.
I’ll be waiting for your news!

liebera sa...

ARMY OF LOVERS’ CLONES are as French résistance. French communist Michael romances with positive lad from positive French Gestapo. Local stripper Sarah is busy worker. Female Polizei is in jealousy. Unhonest Owner of Milk Factory is only one negative person. There is no blood and horrors in the story that is the result of mobilistic philosophy. Do you want Whole Clip script, Alex? And what about the Romanovs and The communists who live in complete peace or BWO, VACCUUM and ARMY OF LOVERS members as heroes of fancy tales?

PS there may be some silliness in my first commentary. I was shy that time. It’s my explanation…