Hafez the Zoroastrian vs Rumi the Manichean

Dear Parviz

That's exactly my point.
I used the Ushta List to learn about the difference between Rumi and Hafez. If we simplify these two Persian poets we end up with a proto-Manichean (Rumi) and a proto-Zoroastrian (Hafez) so Hafez is the one of the two that we would favor. And while this may have taken you years to find out on your own, your wisdom and that of others (for example my friend Ashk Dahlen from Stockholm, who has just joined us here on Ushta) has helped me receive the same wisdom within merely a few days. Clarification is key. Then we can provide ourselves and others with a message filled with asha instead of druj.
Thank you for your patience!

Ushta
Alexander

2009/4/11 Parviz Varjavand



Dear Alex,

Please do not read me wrong, in no way I wish you to be a dictator and intolerant of research into other ideologies. It is just that you seemed to know the parameters of your world views in a much more positive way and that helped me at least to know what Alex's positions are based on. Arthur has abandoned us for some times now and with you also into research in areas that may take many many years to see a light at the end of its tunnel, I felt orphaned for a while. That's all.

What Rumi says and what Hafez says may sound the same specially in translation, but they are not. Hafez makes love to the earthly while Rumi masturbates with the heavenly, It has taken me so many years of reading both and the guidance of several great masters for me to realize this differences. When I see you wonder in those woods, I get anxious about you getting out someday.

Your sincere admirer,
Parviz


--- On Fri, 4/10/09, Alexander Bard wrote:

From: Alexander Bard
Subject: [Ushta] A short meta-discussion?
To: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 7:43 AM


Dear Parviz

I have always used the Ushta forum as a place for meetings and conversations. It can never hurt to learn more about different cultures and traditions, especially the ones that surround Zoroastrianism and have been inspired by or inspired Zoroastrianism. I'm sorry if I'm not the "focused" and "firm" and one-dimensional leader figure that you seem to desire so much, but that's just not me, and that's not how interest in Zoroastrianism develops and grows at the moment here in Europe (which it certainly does). And it is certainly not the sort of personality we need here on Ushta. I'm just not the dictating kind.

Ushta
Alexander

2009/4/9 Parviz Varjavand



Dear Alex,

I do not know what is happening to you, but your mind seems not to be as focused as it was before. To be a leader, first you at least must know what you want. Putting Gathas in the hands of Alevis is as pointless an act as Christians putting Bibles in every motel room. Zanneta is a very lovely person, I am sure of that, but she dwells in an antic-store of mental ideas. Some of this and a Little bit of that will only make a mental soup and not a philosophical stand. Tons of Gathas and Rumi and Hafez will not cut it intellectually, one clear stand is better than tons of this kind of mush. If you stick to your stand, many will come to you, you do not need to chase them Bible or Gathas or Masnavi in hand. Belive me, I have travelled that road for many many years. Alevis are like everybody else, if you chase them with any book in hand, they instinctively figure out that you are a sales person of some stale junk. Only those who are ready to hear new things and come to you because they figure that at least you are not confused about what you want to say matter. An anciant but still very valid Mithraic principal ( and look howmany Mithraists you have around compared to Christians!! ! ;-)

Ushta,
Parviz