Haurvatat

Dear Helen, Dina, Ron

I agree about completion here. The Latin meaning of the word (if English doesn't fully cover the difference from perfection, well then that is beside the point, the terms are Latin and should be viewed as Latin and not English terms). Perfection assumes that there must be a PRIOR FORM to which somehting is moulded in order to become its own idea. A very Platonistic concept. There is no such prior form involved in completion (please remember that Zoroastrians do NOT believe in predestination). I can for example complete my journey (I have reached my destination) which does not assume that the journey was perfect in any way. This is why the translation of "haurvatat" as perfection is both wrong and dangerously misguiding. Mazdayasna is not interested in perfection, it is rather the religion par excellence of movement, change, transformation as metaphysical ideals. In that "completion" is fine for haurvatat while en expression like "being in harmony with itself" may hit the meaning of "haurvatat" even better.

Ushta
Alexander

2009/1/31 ztheist

Ushta Helen

These are eureka moments! Ziism has a term Chisti , something like a
spark, that means, an intuitional moment and or conception. Haurvatat
is something else It is a goal and a tool at the same timeIt is
something like what salvation means to Christians Its like fulfilling
one's potential . Perfection implies spotlessness, absolutenes of
realization, and that is not in the cards in this plane of existence.
Now, in the next dimension ... well in the next we do not know for
sure ... but I will say that when we do reach full Completion and
'cross' the Chinvat, we will know as we are known ...

Ushta te
Ron

--- In Ushta@yahoogroups.com, Helen Gerth wrote:
>
> Ushta te,
>
> Would not perfection be the attainment of such fullness of
expression as you define below? I've always thought of those
'perfect' moments in life as such because an act drew together all of
the threads into a silent meaningful whole, a harmonious blending of
various sensory inputs and thought, a fullness of a gleam of light
across the water for example that brings all the potential within them
to fruition.... if even only for a brief moment a reaction in us of
full appreciation and/or understanding..
>
> they are the moments that stop us in our tracks....
>
> Helen