Ahura Mazda and the God word (The Dance of Shiva and subatomic particles etc)

Dear Yezad

Very good points!
In addition, please note that in the debate on whether God can exist or not, there is also always a THIRD position which is unfortunately often ignored:
This position is that whether God can exist or not clearly depends on what we MEAN with the term God.
Different religions not only believe that God is different (Allah clearly has different characteristics than the Christian God or the Jewish Jehovah or the Brahmanist Brahman etc) but they also have radically different ideas of what the word God means.
As Zoroastrians, we ALL believe in the existence of Ahura Mazda. We just have different ideas of what Ahura Mazda IS. Some people seem to think that Ahura Mazda is identical with Allah (although Allah was invented som 2,000 years after Ahura Mazda), probably because they have grown up in societies dominated by Islam and are too eager to please the Muslims by not being too differen from them. Others seem to think that Ahura Mazda is identical with the Christian God, because they have grown up in largely Christian societies (although the Christian God was invented at least 1,700 years after Ahura Mazda, again not really making any sense).
Both such beliefs are of course completely off the mark.
Ahura Mazda is not God in any of these senses. Maybe it is then better to say that Ahura Mazda is not God at all? I believe this is what Parviz Varjavand has suggested and I totally support him. Maybe it is just better and fairer to say that Ahura Mazda is Ahura Mazda and that's it?
So we can then skip the God word altogether and discuss what our beloved Ahura Mazda is. And provoke our surroundings and make them MORE interested in our faith.
I hate to see Zoroastrianism understood as an INFERIOR religion to Islam and Christianity. So why not then provoke them and say that: Ahura Mazda is what exists (actually by its very definition), you can have your God or gods but we could not care less. As long as we pretend that we share THEIR gods they will always look down on us as primitive and inferior.
And that's of course utterly wrong. If anybody should lay claim to the popular term "Eastern wisdom", then why not us?

Ushta
Alexander

2008/9/14

Hello Everybody,

With our members expressing differing views on the existence of God and its (in)compatibility with modern science I thought it might be interesting for all us to read this mail which a friend of ours passed on to us.

Yezad


Subject: [Abhinavagupta] The Dance of Shiva and Sub Atomic Particles


Date: Friday, September 12, 2008, 11:01 AM

Courtesy of Gautam Sen and Nathan Katz.

The relevance of Shiva-Natarâja is all the greater because this particular experiment intended, if I'm not mistaken, to resolve a long-standing debate around the existence and role of 'dark matter' in the universe, which would correspond in mythology to the cosmic dance of destruction and ritually to the Vedic notion of nirrti.

Sunthar

-----Original Message-----
From: [Nathan Katz]
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 12:50 PM
To: Gautam Sen
Subject: Re: Fwd: The Dance of Shiva and Sub Atomic Particles

Thanks, Gautam. This is EXTREMELY cool!Science, physics, metaphysics, mysticism all at the same time. Einstein must be smiling in Heaven.

Nathan Katz
Professor of Religious Studies
Florida International University
Miami FL 33199
www.indojudaic. com
http://spirituality .fiu.edu

---- Original message ----
>Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:58:22 -0400
>From: "Gautam Sen"
>Subject: Fwd: The Dance of Shiva and Sub Atomic Particles
>To: [...]
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: [DK Sarkar]
> Date: Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 11:01 AM
> Subject: The Dance of Shiva and Sub Atomic Particles
> To: [...]

>
> Lord Shiva veritably presided over the world's
> largest experiment as scientists today sent the
> first beam of protons zooming at nearly the speed of
> light around the world's most powerful particle
> accelerator at the CERN laboratory near Geneva in
> search of the 'God particle'.
> Next to the 2m statue of the dancing Shiva or
> Nataraj at the European Center for Research in
> Particle Physics in Geneva is a plaque that explains
> the connection: "It is the clearest image of the
> activity of God which any art or religion can boast
> of" ... "Hundreds of years ago, Indian artists
> created visual images of dancing Shivas in a
> beautiful series of bronzes. In our time, physicists
> have used the most advanced technology to portray
> the patterns of the cosmic dance. The metaphor of
> the cosmic dance thus unifies ancient mythology,
> religious art and modern physics."
>
> The Significance of Shiva's Dance:
>
> This cosmic dance of Shiva is called 'Anandatandava,
> 'meaning the Dance of Bliss, and symbolizes the
> cosmic cycles of creation and destruction, as well
> as the daily rhythm of birth and death. The dance is
> a pictorial allegory of the five principle
> manifestations of eternal energy � creation,
> destruction, preservation, salvation, and illusion.
> According to Coomaraswamy, the dance of Shiva also
> represents his five activities: 'Shrishti'
> (creation, evolution); 'Sthiti' (preservation,
> support); 'Samhara' (destruction, evolution);
> 'Tirobhava' (illusion); and 'Anugraha' (release,
> emancipation, grace).The overall temper of the image
> is paradoxical, uniting the inner tranquility, and
> outside activity of Shiva.
>
> A Scientific Metaphor:
>
> Fritzof Capra in his article "The Dance of Shiva:
> The Hindu View of Matter in the Light of Modern
> Physics," and later in the The Tao of Physics
> beautifully relates Nataraj's dance with modern
> physics. He says that "every subatomic particle not
> only performs an energy dance, but also is an energy
> dance; a pulsating process of creation and
> destruction�without end�For the modern
> physicists, then Shiva's dance is the dance of
> subatomic matter. As in Hindu mythology, it is a
> continual dance of creation and destruction
> involving the whole cosmos; the basis of all
> existence and of all natural phenomena."
>
> The Nataraj Statue at CERN, Geneva:
>
> In 2004, a 2m statue of the dancing Shiva was
> unveiled at CERN, the European Center for Research
> in Particle Physics in Geneva. A special plaque next
> to the Shiva statue explains the significance of the
> metaphor of Shiva's cosmic dance with quotations
> from Capra: "Hundreds of years ago, Indian artists
> created visual images of dancing Shivas in a
> beautiful series of bronzes. In our time, physicists
> have used the most advanced technology to portray
> the patterns of the cosmic dance. The metaphor of
> the cosmic dance thus unifies ancient mythology,
> religious art and modern physics."
> To sum up, here's an excerpt from a beautiful poem
> by Ruth Peel:
> "The source of all movement,
> Shiva's dance,
> Gives rhythm to the universe.
> He dances in evil places,
> In sacred,
> He creates and preserves,
> Destroys and releases.
> We are part of this dance
> This eternal rhythm,
> And woe to us if, blinded
> By illusions,
> We detach ourselves
> From the dancing cosmos,
> This universal harmony