tisdag 7 april 2009

Unio Mystica, really?

The question here is what RUMI meant with his "love".
Was Rumi a proto-Zoroastrian or actually the exact opposite, which would indeed be a proto-Manichean instead? Now, that's the interesting question.
I agree that people who place their love into the transcendental are always at heart gnostics. If we love the world as it is, here and now, we would not need the transcendental "love" to begin with.
There was always a very GOOD reason why Zoroastrians refused to build monasteries for people who refused to have sex, drink wine, and enjoy their lives here and now and instead sit on pedestals and feel superior compared to the rest of us. Because if they would have, the Zoroastrians would soon have had self-righteous gnostics on their hand.
They apparently had seen others make that mistake before them.

2009/4/7 Georgios Papadopoulos

Dear Zaneta,
Jesus did not invent much. The passage of Mark you quote is perhaps the best example.
The first commandment is the most sacred Jewish prayer, the Shema Yisrael (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shema_Yisrael).
The second commandment is just a verbatim copy of Leviticus 19:18.
I agree with Parviz in that the love of God cannot be confused with earthly love. The God of the Bible commands people to love him (please read the Shema). Earthly love just can't be enforced!
Besides all these, I can still understand the "love" of people/mystics towards God. What I can't understand is the commandment of God.

--- In Ushta@yahoogroups.com, Zaneta Garratt wrote:
> Hi Parviz,
> I do not mind you disagreeing with me at all but surely you can love God/Ahura Mazda and yet love your fellow men/women with the same type of love-because you cannot love and serve God unless you love your neighbour first-sorry I hope you do not mind me quoting the bible but this quote is good in answering your question-from-
> Mark:12:
> 29 And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God.
> 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with thy whole heart and with thy whole soul and with thy whole mind and with thy whole strength. This is the first commandment.
> 31 And the second is like to it: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is no other commandment greater than these.
> In fact it is useless being a believer in God/Ahura Mazda unless you love your neighbour first, Jesus went on so far as to say that we should love our enemies and turn the other cheek instead of hitting back at someone who hits first, but I am not so sure I could do this-yet I feel thAT he advocated these extreme measures as he did not want the Jews to fight against the Romans as he knew the Romans would kill them if they did, and this is what actually happened.
> To practise true religion it is demanded that you must love your fellow man/woman as well as loving God/Ahura Mazda but the fanatics forget this totally and in the end they go against their own religion-they fall into the side of Darkness-CS Lewis said that hell is full of spoiled saints as he put it-people who start off good but got waylead by fanatic beliefs and become destructive-Instead the true believer is constructive and creative because he/she loves both mankind and God-Another thing that CS Lewis said was thAT you cannot love mankind enough but you can easily love God too little-he was a great theologian but he also had a fine imagination-he wrote "the witch, the lion and the wardrobe" books which have been made into many films,Every blessing from zaneta
> To: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
> From: solvolant@...

> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 19:21:28 -0700
> Subject: RE: [Ushta] Unio Mystica
> Dear Zaneta,
> I do not agree with you.
> I feel that those who have the word LOVE which refers to a phisical and an earthly bonding hijacked to refer to their ways of masturbating with the abstract are the real perverts amongst us. Why do you think so many women are mutilated genitally and psychologically on the planet? It is not done by the order of men who can love women in a physical way; it is done by the order of their spiritual leaders who hate the Earth and love their gaga land that they are going to get to after they die. They hate the physical earthly LOVE in a deep way (even though most of the time they are completely unaware of it and deny it) and hurt little girls. Mani saw all women as the vehicle of evil because he hated life on this planet. All Rumi's love poems are not about love on this planet, this planet is a prison and a place of torture and exile for mystics like him. Next time you comb your hair remember, you should shave your head, or hide your
> hair so that men can not see it and be tempted. Women should live in shame because they tempted us out of the garden of the Father. When are you going to get the full impact of the ugly messages of these Unio Mystica perverts.
> Ushta,
> Parviz

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