The Secrecy of The Mithraeum

Dear Praviz

I always answer your questions as best I can.
I answered you that The Bull symbolised Nature and Being (while Mithras stands for Culture and Mind). This is the primary DUALITY (not dualism) of our existence. So The Tauroctony is The Act where these two meet.
The slaying of the bull is both instantly possible and still impossible, which is why it has to repeated. To REMIND us of the conditions of our existence and celebrate them.
Yes, secrecy can be a problem. But I firmly believe in our day and age that Exposure kills Sanctity. I will never allow any TV cameras inside the mithraeum. Just like good priests do not allow microphones and eavesdropping during Confession.
The Closed Room of The Community has to be restored.

Ushta
Alexander

2010/9/22 Parviz Varjavand

Dear Alex,

In philosophy, some things that we say can have very bad results and some other things can have very good results. When a number of people gather in secret, the first supposition that crosses minds is that they are gathering thus to do or plot something bad. Zoroastrians say that good likes light and bad likes darkness, there is something basic going on here.

You said that the bullfight is a Mithraic ritual. I asked you, "what does the bull symbolize here?" You did not answer me. This may be one of your secrets, but this question has a bad answer and a good answer. When you keep your answer a secret, it is natural that I will assume that your answere must be the bad one. I grant you that most of the time "Good" can be boring while "Bad" can be fascinating. But please have a more sophisticated reason for not calling your self a Zoroastrian after all the hard work you did to join this barsam than some of us doing boring things. Why should you care what some Zoroastrians say or do if as you have said many times, you joined it for its philosophy and not the unbecoming behavior of some of its adherents. Your statements about leaving us are a huge blow to those who are for conversion because those who are against it will sneaker and say "Didn't we tell you, all this was nothing but a game for persons like Alex, shame on those who performed his sedrepooshi and belittled our sacred rituals".

Other than that "Can I join Mithraism? Can i? Can I?" "Do I have to kill a bull or something to join?". Yes, I am fascinated by where you want to go and this may be why I am bothering you, same as when I bothered Jafarey. I was fascinated by where Jafarey wanted to go, I just bothered him so that he would pay more attention to the pitfalls of the road, like making Ronald a spokesperson of his ideas. I was fascinated by the Farahmand brothers, but they could not tolerate any chriticism. They left, but I wish they had stayed.

Parviz

--- On Tue, 9/21/10, Alexander Bard wrote:

From: Alexander Bard
Subject: Re: [Ushta] Mithraism before Government and Society
To: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 11:33 AM


There is nothing childish at all all about having secret societies.

I don't have sex in public, why should I then perform my religious rituals in public, when they are even more honest and personal and intimate?
The public arena is overrated and people are controlled by governments and corporations precisely by being too public about what they do.
This is why Mithraism is so desperately needed today!
Love
Alexander

2010/9/21 Parviz Varjavand

Dear Dino,

Playing childish games of having secret gatherings and this and that (more that than this!!??) is one thing and having a system for facilitating deep thinking for the seeking novices is another thing. I have followed Nabarz for many years now and he is a very decent person doing work that he feels is good and he does it from the depths of his heart and soul under the Mithraic brand. But for me, his work does not add up to anything worth learning and teaching to children or those you love. Religion is a heritage you feel is very valuable and that you want to teach it to your children and grand children so that it stays around for a very long time to come. You and Alex talk as if deep thinking is something like the fashion of how the ladies wear their skirts, short one year and long the next. There is a lot of money in Fashion and you have to be very secretive about what you are designing so that when it comes out, it would be the "Latest Rage". But this is not how Philosophy works. Are we looking for a great philosophy to live by or some ways to be cute and fashionable for a few moments of attracting attention to ourselves?

Mehr,
Parviz

--- On Tue, 9/21/10, Special Kain wrote:

From: Special Kain
Subject: Re: [Ushta] Mithraism before Government and Society
To: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 9:22 AM



Dear Parviz
Most - if not all - occultist secret societies I know are in deep, deep trouble. The church, the media and the government have joined their forces to destroy them. All Thelema communities in Germany are being attacked on a regular basis. And they're all complaining.
But that's just silly self-victimization. They should have hired a skilled and experienced PR consultant and a terribly depraved and combative lawyer MANY YEARS AGO, and things wouldn't look as bad.
Also, it is a different situation. Occultist secret societies being persecuted in our democratic nation states versus neo-Mithraist secret communities being built and expanded in an increasingly networked and post-nationalist global society that is governed by totally different laws.

Ushta,
Dino

--- Parviz Varjavand schrieb am Di, 21.9.2010:

Von: Parviz Varjavand
Betreff: Re: [Ushta] Mithraism before Government and Society
An: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Datum: Dienstag, 21. September, 2010 17:51 Uhr


Dear Alex, count me out,

I like to walk in the sunlight and have no secrets from anybody. Also, my love is for "Mithra-Anahit" and more for Anahita than Mithra. My true religion can be described more as Zurvanism as both Mithra and Anahita are born of Zurvan, Zurvan comes first and is Akarna meaning it has no "Shores" or "Boundaries". Later Zurvan Akarna becomes Zurvan Darghoo-xodata or Zuvan the self-created (Xoda) and out of this stage of Zurvan, Mehr and Nahid come out as the Male and Female forces that operate throughout creation. Zurvan is Ahoura or "That which IS" and has nothing more than its "IS' ness"; the very start of creation. Mithra and Anahitha come next and the dance of positive and negative forces begins. Mazda developes much much later and when Thinking becomes possible out of this Zurvani or Ahouraic begining and Mithra and Anahita dancing and dancing together for a very long time in order to give birth to the Mind.

Good luck Alex, the great artist of the Mind (Mazda).
Parviz

--- On Tue, 9/21/10, Alexander Bard wrote:

From: Alexander Bard
Subject: [Ushta] Mithraism before Government and Society
To: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 8:11 AM


Yes, Parviz, and THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT!!!

Can you imagine how fast such a Mithraic cult would spread compared to the bland and whitewashed form of Sunday morning Zoroastrianism that Ali Jafarey & Co have propagated?
The first paragraph of the Mithraic ethos is of course that Mithraism in itself is the ultimate law and must go before any government's rules and regulations.
Offensive? Yes! And that is precisely the point!
Ushta
Alexander

Mithraism before Government and Society Part 2

Dear Syn

We need to realize what times we are living in.
This is the age of the internet! People are exposing themselves everywhere, to complete strangers! This is the age of narcissism. It is precisely as an OPPONENT to all such trends that we need to go Mithraic.
Zoroastrianism may have provided a universalist philosophy for us. We believe in the actual existence of Ahura Mazda, Mithras and The Bull are merely symbols.
But when we take Ahura Mazda into the Mithraic Artistic Landscape, THEN we really are on to something big. Something that is already happening around us.
What we need to do however is to take the IRONY out of roleplaying and make it dead serious. This is when we go from Neopaganism to genuine Neomithraism.

Ushta
Alexander

2010/9/21 Syn


>>>--- In Ushta@yahoogroups.com, Special Kain wrote:Most - if not all - occultist secret societies I know are in deep, deep trouble. The church, the media and the government have joined their forces to destroy them...Occultist secret societies being persecuted in our democratic nation states versus neo-Mithraist secret communities being built and expanded in an increasingly networked and post-nationalist global society that is governed by totally different laws.---<<<

Hello Dino

Though I appreciate your occultic comparison with certain elements of Mithraism, I would perhaps suggest that most religions are 'occult' in the sense that there are elements within all religions that are 'secret' [perhaps a better word would be 'private'] to those not members of that particular org. or community. I personaly dont think Mithraism is realy any more occult ['secret'/'private'] than any other group or faith, especialy those that have an outer and/or an inner court of teaching.

No organisation is completely open to those who are not members, not the CofE, the Catholic Church and its many subsidary communities or traditional Zoroastrianism with it's heirarchy of priests etc. What is there about the basic beliefs of Mithraism that need to remain secret/private? none in my opinion, thus any comparison with organisations such as Wica [which is not realy that 'occult' either - even though it tries to be] or the Masons is perhaps a bit moot - Satanism and Thelema certainly does'nt pretend to be a secret org either.

Some orgs like to label themselves 'occult' to appear so very mysterious, to attract interest, yet nothing is realy that 'secret' to those willing to look more deeply into whatever group or faith they have an interest in. However if like Rastafarianism that uses illegal drugs in its ritual Eucharist then I suppose there is then reason to remain a bit private/secret. Religious beliefs do not always correspond exactly with the wider society around it and thus it would only be practical to remain careful, even Islam which is a major world faith has a major tenet of deception, called taqiyya, which it is always willing to employ if it benefits Islam and Muslims.

In Light Warmth and Colour

Syn-Hudanush

Mithraism before Government and Society

Yes, Parviz, and THAT IS EXACTLY THE POINT!!!
Can you imagine how fast such a Mithraic cult would spread compared to the bland and whitewashed form of Sunday morning Zoroastrianism that Ali Jafarey & Co have propagated?
The first paragraph of the Mithraic ethos is of course that Mithraism in itself is the ultimate law and must go before any government's rules and regulations.
Offensive? Yes! And that is precisely the point!
Ushta
Alexander

2010/9/21 Parviz Varjavand

Dear Zaneta,

This is a great post from you. I loved it. So the Mazda car manufacturers are ahead of the rest of our Neo-Mithraists by miles.

>>""The Mazda Way"
"An intense commitment to your total satisfaction"<<

So our new Mithraists will meet in secret places in the middle of the night and be intensely committed to their own and their friends TOTAL satisfaction, heH ;-) What a great path!! What more can one ask for!!! Except I have news for them, society hates this and will penetrate their secret society and deal with them as if they were the worst kind of perverts and criminals. Anything done by the average person in the name of secrecy and self satisfaction is going to be dealt with as an act of perversion and terrorism by a social order totally board and perverted itself.

The powers that rule our world can not stand competition, they need good exposed lambs whose every private parts they can examine and re-examine in full sunlight or under interrogation searchlights. Buying a cute two seater red Mazda sports car after you have paid taxes and tariffs on every penny you ever had is the limits of what they can allow you to do, that and if you do not have the money, you can go and tattoo every inch of private or public parts of your body and other such fun and game nonsense. Even the Pope and his cardinals and bishops are no longer allowed to have their satisfaction with coir boys or make castrates out of them in the timehonored secret traditions of the holly mother church.

I should drink less and think more before I fire up bad posts like this,
Parviz

--- On Tue, 9/21/10, Zaneta Garratt wrote:

From: Zaneta Garratt
Subject: [Ushta] Mithra and Mazda
To: ushta@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, September 21, 2010, 4:41 AM

HS Nyberg believed that the Mithraists and the followers of Zarathustra were originally seperate groups and the Mithra Yasht was the Mitraist Creed but later on the followers of Mithra joined up with the followers of Zarathustra and in return the Zoroastrains adopted the Mithra Yasht as part of their scriptures

Recently my husband bought a cute little red two-seater Mazda car and its instructions were in a folder intitled-

"The Mazda Way"
"An intense commitment to your total satisfaction"

It made me think of how we can relate to Zarathustra's teachings

Best wishes from zaneta

Mithraism in The Age of Empire

Mithraism expanded rapidly throughout the Roman Empire (and possibly the neighboring Persian Empire too) in the second century. It was stopped through persecution and widespread massacres by Christians in the early 4th century. Since we now live in the new "Roman Empire" it is time to get things right and ressurect Mithraism.
Which I believe people are already doing through Pagan Art events such as Burning Man. We just need to give them a substance to fill the form already evident.
Ushta
Alexander

The Occult and Pagan side of Mithraism (as Zoroastrian Philosophy put into practice)

Well, I couldn't agree more!!!
I much prefer my "Zoroastrianism" to be both occult and pagan. As opposed to the cleansed and wholesome variety that imitates the Abrahamic faiths and their rituals.
Religious meetings should take place at night and not at 11.00am on Sundays. For example.
So I go with Pagan (meaning anything that is NOT Abrahamic in old Rome) and with PHILOSOPHICALLY Zoroastrian. So the best title for the religion I want to belong to is Mithraism.
You and Parviz have moved along the same lines now for quite some time. ;-)
Brotherly love
Alexander

2010/9/21 Special Kain

Dear Alexander, there are WORLDS between occultism and Satanism.
But all this really sounds like 19th secret societies where curious minds (and bored and spoiled brats) would gather to perform magical rituals, take drugs and discuss philosophical and social issues. Like the famous "hashish club" or Crowley's Thelemic groups. This is exactly what I got into when I was 17, and it was hilariously fascinating!
When I read "Netocracy" the first time, this is also the picture I got. More wires, less robes.

Ushta,
Dino


--- Alexander Bard schrieb am Mo, 20.9.2010:

Von: Alexander Bard
Betreff: Re: [Ushta] Re: Mithraism or Mazdaism
An: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Datum: Montag, 20. September, 2010 21:53 Uhr


Dear Dino
Now I follow you. Occult as in obscura, Latin for darkness. Not as in Satanism. Sure! The rituals are only for the initiated, something that I think will be both necessary and extremely attractive in a society where people due to the internet expose everything about themselves to anybody. This is precisely what is attractive about Mithraism. I have personally just started googling Mithraism as a contemporary phenomen so I welcome any tips myself.
Ushta
Alexander

2010/9/20 Special Kain

The occult refers to rituals and beliefs that are practiced in secrecy. Things that are not made public. No prayer gatherings in broad daylight where everybody could see what they were doing.
So it could be appropriate to refer to Mithraist gatherings as occultist, but I admit that it would be historically inaccurate, since the term "occultism" was born in the Middle Ages. Nevertheless, it is what Mithraism has reminded me of. ;-)
What I learned from my experience with European occultist secret societies is that, metaphorically speaking, everyone should write their own book instead!!!
And, frankly, the only thing left to say about Christianity these days is that there is no reason to go to church other than marvel at the beauty of architecture.
So what's a great source about Mithraism? Can you recommend any good website?

Ushta,
Dino

--- Alexander Bard schrieb am Mo, 20.9.2010:

Von: Alexander Bard
Betreff: Re: [Ushta] Re: Mithraism or Mazdaism
An: Ushta@yahoogroups.com
Datum: Montag, 20. September, 2010 17:07 Uhr


Not really.

The word occult is totally inappropriate here. Mithraism existed independently of or even before Christianity and was therefore NOT some Satanic or Occult cult.
Raher it was a CYCLIST religion put in practice and as such perfect for a modern post-secular religious or metaphysical experience. The bullfighting in Spain and France is a typical remnant of Mithraic culture.
And the exclusion of women is a myth. Many mithraea have traces of women found in them, including seating especially reserved for women. It's just that Mithraism was especially popular among soldiers in the Roman Empire who happened to be men. That's all.
It's just that Mithraism is surrounded by so much Christian bullshit it is unbelievable. But then again, Mithraism was (and perhaps still is) the chief opponent to Christianity.
Ushta
Alexander

2010/9/20 Special Kain

We only know very little about Mithraist philosophy, dear Syn. For example, what we know for certain is that there were occultist secret societies where everybody was welcome to join - except for women. They were obsessed with astronomy and astrology. But since they were forbidden to tell anybody else about their secret rituals, we don't know what was really going on in those caves.
Mithraism - including its rich symbolism - reminds me of our contemporary occultist secret societies that are devoted followers of Aleister Crowley's and other 19th century-born occultists' philosophies.

Ushta,
Dino

Mithraism: Contracts and civilization

Correct!!!
Please note that "contract" is also synonymous with "civilization", Zarathushtra's main preoccupation.
It was the histroical introduction of the contract as social tool that made Civilization possible. Civilization as in permanent settlements economically based on the DOMESTICATION of animals and plants for food production. This enabled ownership of land (contractual) and the creation of a rule of law (contractual). Without contracts, no civilization!
So Mithras is the divinity of Civilization itself. As Parviz has discussed before in the use of the bersam (fasces) to bind a society together.
Therefore Mithras is also Mind in relation to Being (Culture in relation to Nature).
Each mithraeum apparently had its very own religious practices in what amounted to a completely decentralized religion (as opposed to the extremely centralized and dogmatic Abrahamic faiths).
Ushta
Alexander

2010/9/21 osred90

This sounds like a great idea.

Mithraism is some form has been the popular side of Zoroastrianism since the beginning so let it be the vehicle of Zoroastrian revival today!

I do have my misgivings about Roman Mithraism which had only a partial resemblance to earlier Iranian Mithraism and was possibly a kind of Masonic organisation open to political manipulation.

However there is no reason for modern Mithraists to only use Roman Mithraism as a model - they can go back to Avestan (and possibly Indian) sources as well as well as developing their own ideas of what Mithra means to them.

Probably modern Mithraism will split into lots of different denominations with different ideas. However this need not be a bad thing as long as some of them keep alive the memory of Zoroaster and the Gathas.

----Historic Mithra-------

So what is Mithra?

Mithra derives from a word meaning contract.

To early Iranian pagans Mithra was a god of justice who stood guard over contracts (agreements made by oaths) and punished those who broke them. Mithra was absolutely upright and fair in his dealings with people though somewhat fierce in punishing wrong-doers.

These pagans were polytheists who worshipped multiple gods, not just Mithra, but it was Mithra who was the most popular.

In the Indian Rig-Veda Mithra is often paired with Varuna who was a sky god with overall concern for good order in the world. To later Indian pagans Mithra (or Mitra or Maitreya) became a more approachable god of friendship .

-- Mithra Today --------

I suggest Mithra should be a deity who guards the 'Good Relationship' (Asha) in all its forms.

Good Relationship between people.
Good Relationship between people and other living beings.
Good Relationship between people and their environment.
Good Relationship between people in their economic activities.
Good Relationship between Mind and Reality.

Mithra guards them all!

Osred

The Mysteries of Mithras

Dear Payam

Yes, indeed! Your book "The Mysteries of Mithras" is very useful here towards understanding what Mithraism is all about. Both the historical version of the phenomenon and the Mithraism 2.0 imbued with Zoroastrian philosophy we are discussing here.

Ushta
Alexander

2010/9/21 Nabarz

Hail Mithra(s),

I guess I should add my two pence :)

The Mithraic revival is only around 100 years old max, so it doesn't have the various bagges that comes with more established traditions.
Its also means you have to think for yourself more (no easy answers) and have to actually expriment to see what works and what doesn't in making contact. so generally more organic and interesting, and generally something that people get interested in while they have been doing spiritual practise for a while.

My own approach is covered in my books:
The Mysteries of Mithras: The Pagan Belief That Shaped the Christian World.
Followed by Stellar Magic: A Practical Guide to Performing Rites and Ceremonies to the Moon, Planets, Stars and Constellations.
www.stellarmagic.co.uk

And ofcourse Mithras Reader Vol1, Vol2, and out this week Vol3 at the fullmoon on autumn equinox, in honour of Mithra and forthcoming Mehregan festival).

Regards,
Payam Nabarz