Wecome to the club!
This is what we all at Ushta have been saying all along about "The Gathas-only cult".
Instead we are all for a Zoroastrianism full of energy, passion and spirit, as The Gathas indeed are!
Let's continue our studies with great passion and enthusiasm.
2010/1/15 ardeshir farhmand
I never stated that there is gatha and/or avesta bashing here on the ushta list. ushta list is interested in comparative study of the gathas with other profound philosophies. and that is why i am here and participating.
now, concerning former deputy prime minister "Dr. Farhang Mehr;" in his book that i quoted before, he denies all the fundamental gathic teachings and claims that they are NOT in the gathas. not only such claim is UTTERLY RIDICULOUS and UNSUBSTANTIATED but it shows a profound lack of familiarity with the original gathic text.
The idea of angels/divine attributes/virtues, resurrection, the bridge of illumination, spirit and ....... ARE ALIVE and BRILLIANT AS THE SUN ITSELF in the GATHAS.
The whole PONIT IS that they are VERY DIFFERENT CONCEPTS and have very DIFFERENT MEANINGS in their GATHIC ORIGINAL; than what they have become later in other religions and/or philosophies.
SO, INSTEAD OF MAKING UP STUFF AND DENY THE TRUTH, these pseudo-rationalist/apologists shall try to UNDERSTAND THE ORIGINAL CONCEPT/TEXT instead of making up stuff and attribute their perceptions to the GATHAS.
as a result of such irresponsible and unsubstantiated statements/translations, the POETIC GATHAS have been been portrayed as a boring outdated pseudo-scientific textbook that do not say anything of substance expect some mechanic mumbo-jumbo.
and that is precisely why i oppose ANYONE who paints his/her opinions as the ENCHANTING SONGS. it is perfectly fine to disagree with zarathushtra, but it is absolutely wrong to attribute our own ideas to him without establishing an actual link/factual basis for such assumption.
for example there appears to be a tremendous amount of agreement between Zarathushtra HEGEL, Nietzsche and SPINOZA.
in fact, HERMAN LOMMELL, one of the top gatha scholars was a GRANDSON OF HEGEL. that is all good, and comparative study is excellent. that is where we should focus our energies.
we shall not however change and/or re-write/twist the enchanting gathas or any of the above great thinkers works to better fit our likings and/or make them more marketable.
that is my big problem with the so called "gathas only camp." they twist the gathic terms/phases/words and CLAIM that this is the word of ZARATHUSHTRA, they talk with such authority as if they knew Zarathushtra personally; and yet all they say is nothing more than a boring mumbo-jumbo devoid of energy, passion and spirit present in the ORIGINAL GATHAS.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 2:24 AM, Alexander Bard
Dear Ardeshir and Bahman
Nobody is bashing The Gathas or the Avesta for that matter on the Ushta List. I'm glad we can agree on that.
But what is this talk about Fahrang Mehr bashing The Gathas? When and where did he do that?
The Gathas is of course a fantastic text, the Avesta is useful and most interesting too.
But let's always follow Zarathushtra's instruction to place our own critical thinking before any text or book. This is what it means to live within the true spirit of Zarathushtra. We are mind-lovers even more than we are book-lovers.
But we love our books precisely because they enrich and inspire our minds.
2010/1/15 ardeshir farhmand
The poetic gathas are very AUTHENTIC, and almost the whole avesta has been written as a footnote to the gathic verses or as their commentary. Therefore the whole avesta must be and IS very dear to every true zarathushtian heart; whatever their background might be.
the gathas are referred to as "manthra/echoes of the spirit" and a-vesta is the key/code to understand and decipher their profound and unknown wisdom and so is the holy denkard.
I agree with u 100% on the point of avest-bashing. when some well-intentioned, but religiously illiterate zoroastrians/pseudo rationalists bash the avesta, and try to deny everything that zarathushtra said in his gathas, and ascribe their pseudo-science nonsense to the poetic gathas; then some government sponsored pseudo-researcher backed by radical fractions within iranian government DARES to call the LUMINOUS GATHAS non-authentic.
when the likes of DR. FARHANG MEHR deny all the original and ingenious teachings of the poetic gathas and claim these profound doctrines are not from Ashoo Zarthoesht, and twist the gathic terms, phrases and words to suit their pseudo-science; then what do u expect really from shia on line, rajabi or the like?????
the FACT is that some gatha translations have purposefully been twisted/altered, to fit a mechanical, so-called scientific and outdated 50ish view. these are the same people who deny that MINOO is "passion, energy, spirit, consciousness" and shamelessly write that there is NO Spirit in the gathas, then what do u expect from rajabi?????
Things have gone too far, we zoroastrians of all backgrounds must end this apologists and pseudo-rationalist nonsense; and study the poetic gathas in light of their ancient exegesis and profound and luminous commentary of the yore.