onsdagen den 22:e juni 2011

The superiority of Zoroastrianism over Islam

What none of these people understand is that it is not good thoughts, good words, good actions in themselves which concern Zarathushtra but THE ORDER IN WHICH THESE PEHENOMENA OCCUR!!!
What Zarathushtra is illustrating is the series of causes and effects in which ethics must be placed. And because THOUGHTS occur before WORDS which in turn occur before ACTIONS, Zoroastrian ethics is obsessed with THINKING. Thinking honestly, thinking constructively, thinking fully, thinking properly!
The Abrahamic gods punish people for not BEHAVING in the proper manner.
That is idiocy. Zarathushtra is much smarter and more realistic than the banal Abrahamic moralists. Whcih is also why our ETHICS has nothing to do with their MORALISM.
Muslim scholars who do not understand Zarathushtra should keep their big and loud hateful mouths shut!
Ushta
Alexander

2011/6/22 osred90
He is right that if Good Thoughts etc is just a slogan and you have no idea what it means then it is not enough.
Zoroastrians should look ultimately to a combination of Sarosh (your inner voice) and Chisti (wisdom/understanding) to help you understand what Good Thoughts etc are in any particular situation.
Getting in contact with Sarosh and Chisti requires personal development such as is provided by Sufi teachers as well as ordinary teachers and by the accidents of life.
In my view to be a good Zoroastrian you should be striving to develop your ability to tell what are Good Thoughts etc as well as your inclination to do them.
Osred.

--- In Ushta@yahoogroups.com, Bahman Noruziaan wrote:
> This is a sermon from a Iranian Shia Muslim cleric (in Iran), with English subtitles.
> Is having Humata, Houkhta and Hvarshta as the guideline enough or as he is claiming not?!
> See for yourself,
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljDR0wjQyos
> Regards
> Bahman

söndagen den 5:e juni 2011

Monism vs Dualism

Good to know. I agree. Our difference is the one between dualist monotheism and monist monotheism.
Dualist monotheism is too Abrahamic to me and you and most others. I can't find any foundation for dualism whatsoever in The Gathas. To me, dualism is not a Persian but a very Egyptian idea. And Judaism, Christianity and Islam have Egyptian and not Persian origins. Persian philosophy is naturally much closer to India culturally and historically than to Egypt. Which is why Zoroastrianism is 1. monist and 2. not Abrahamic.
The soul is the personification of the body itself to Zarathushtra, not some alien thing to be kept clean from a dirty and sinful body. This monism then colors absolutely everything about Zoroastrianism.
Ushta
Alexander

2011/6/5 Parviz Varjavand

Dear Alex,

We are NOT in disagreement, I am a pantheist monist Zoroastrian too; but try to explain this to other Zoroastrians (including Jafarey and Ron), and it is like talking to a wall. It is this wall that I wish to pull down. Monotheism of Mazdaism is not the same as Abrahamic Monotheism, that is the only point I am trying to make. We are being pushed in that corner day after day and text after text that we read and no one has the heart or the mind to object strongly to this push.

Mehr Afzoon,
Parviz Varjavand

Zoroastrianism and Monotheism

Dear Parviz
I must offer friendly but strong disagreement.
Mono means one. As in monologue (one person only speaking) as opposed to dialogue (two people speaking with each other).
All religions that believe in one divinity rather than no or many divinities is monotheistic.
Zoroastrianism is definitely monotheistic. All pantheist and panentheist religions are as monotheistic as for example dualistic monotheism (which is what the Abrahamic religions propose).
Just to avoid any future confusion.
Ushta
Alexander/pantheistic monist Zoroastrian

2011/6/5 Parviz Varjavand

Dear Ostad Jafarey,

Monotheism has come to refer to the belief in the God of Abraham, a God that sits outside His creation and both good and bad comes to us by His Commands. Zarathustra talks about two roots, one good and the other bad in their Essence. Did Mazda Ahoura created them as such, and if not, then where does Bad come from? Who created the Lie, death, decay, and the ascending order from Horvatat and Ameratat side of life? Would you please teach us how the teaching of Zarathustra may be a similar or different than the belief in the God of Abraham? I repeat, Monotheism for all practical purposes, today, means belief in the God of Abraham and not the God of Zarathustra.

Always ready to learn from you,
Parviz Varjavand

From: "Jafarey@aol.com"
To: zoroastrians@yahoogroups.com
Cc: zoroastrianacceptance2@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, June 4, 2011 9:56:02 PM
Subject: Re: [zoroastrians] Against Devas

Ardasher Khorasani wrote: 11:31am May 27
>>"Deus (Latin pronunciation: [ˈde�ʊs]) is Latin for "god" or "deity". Latin deus
>>and dīvus "divine", are descended from Proto-Indo-European *deiwos, from the
>>same root as *Dyēus, the reconstructed chief god of theProto-Indo-European
>>pantheon. Compare Greek Zeus (Ζε�ς, pronounced zdeús), in Aeolic Greek Δε�ς
>>(deús).
In Classical Latin it was a general noun referring to any divine figure. In Late
Latin, it came to be used mostly of the Christian God. It is inherited directly
in the Romance languages, as French dieu, Spanish dios, Portuguese deus, Italian
dio, etc.
In ancient Sanskrit, the word used for 'God'
Great philosopher Zaratushtra teached that there is no
god(deus,theos,zdeus,dieu,dios,dio,deiwa). Any who claim to represent himself as
divine is swindler. There is only Ahura Mazda – supreme wisdom as supreme law of
nature. God=Theos=dues=deiwa. Atheism=adeiwism. Zaratushtra first
atheist-adeiwist in the world."<<
* * * * * *
Dear Friends,
Ushta!
Mr. Ardesher Khorasani has given a good Greek-Latin etymology of “Deus,� deity. I would add that in Avesta, it is "daeva"� and Sanskrit "deva."� It is derived from "div - to shine."� Daeva/deva means "Shining, Bright, Brilliant."� It was originally applied to the brilliant sun, moon, lightening, sky, day and other bright objects, considered by the primitives as deities. Later, with the expansion of belief in deities presiding over natural objects between the sky and earth, they believed them to be super beings ruling the world. Influenced by the human society of a chief and his/her assistants, the deities formed a pantheon of the chief and minor deities. The Indo-Iranians had another term, "ahura/asura - being, essence,"� especially for unseen deities, who existed but were not seen by human eyes. It created what we call "Polytheism."� History shows that polytheism has persisted all over the world since beginning of the human belief in supernatural beings.
Mr. Khorasani concludes his e-mail by stating “There is only Ahura Mazda – supreme wisdom as supreme law of nature. God=Theos=dues=deiwa. Atheism=adeiwism. Zaratushtra first atheist-adeiwist in the world."<< He makes the statement without providing any proof, either from the Gathas, the very words of Zarathushtra or from any other source.
Zarathushtra is historically the foremost person, whose search and research led him to believe that the Cosmos, the highly orderly universe could only be created, maintained and promoted by a super-intellect being. In his language it is "Mazda Ahura - Super-Intellect Essence."� Mazda Ahura creates, maintains and promotes the Cosmos through the "Primal Principles of Existence - Asha (Right, Precision), Spenta Mainyu (Progressive Mentality), Vohu Manah (Good Mind), and a dozen more to make them reach Haurvatat (Entirety) and Ameretat (Eternity). Zarathushtra is again the foremost person who speaks of evolution to perfection. Charles Darwin (1809-1882 CE), the British scientist, who laid the foundation of the Evolution Theory, is well 3,500 years later than him!
He is the foremost MONOTHEIST and can never, never be called an Atheist, Polytheist or Henotheist. His Monotheism is unique - only Mazda Ahura -- Super-Intellect Essence. No pantheon of minor gods and goddesses or archangels and angels. He rejects the notion of "daeva,"� and calls it "deception."� Incidentally, the synonym root "div/dav/dab (Sanskrit dabh) means "to cheat, to deceive"� and therefore "daeva"� can also mean "Deception."�
I have been studying the Gathas since 1938 and a serial part of them includes my daily prayers. I have, so far, not come across any sign of Atheism, Polytheism, Henotheism or Monism in them. It is only his pantheonless Monotheism. (Please refer to my essays “God in the Gathas,� “God in the Gathas, Later Avesta and Pahlavi Scriptures� and more. They provide the scriptural proofs of every statement and if asked, I can repost them.)
I may add that the words god, theism and other related terms have undergone semantic changes and today relate to the Being who has created and maintains the universe. They have their Semitic and Indo-Iranian concepts with their similarities and dissimilarities. To make it simple, they mean “God.�
Ushta,
Ali A. Jafarey
14 Khordad/Haurvatat (Entirety) 3749 ZRE = 4 June 2011 CE